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Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

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Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#41
post #26

I am not from the US so I don't know what kind of dystopian regulations you guys got over there. But: if the company wants the fruit of the work you do outside of paid time, they should pay you 24/7. If they decide that is not worth it, they should not expect to see any of your work. So this might just be a very bad contract..? From the corp perspective I understand they would like to prevent you from creating a prod…

Not to be that guy (er, yes, a little bit) but OP explicitly mentioned being based in Cyprus, which is an island in the eastern Mediterranean Sea and thus not in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#42
Yes, you should take it seriously, and in the US this would be several issues, some of which are in the employer's favor federally, and some parts like whether - - you can compete or not - are regulated at the state level.

California notoriously voiding the anti-compete language so well that you can still comfortably sign a contract with the anti-compete language because you know its unenforceable. (This is seen as a key part of California's tech industry growth.)

Get a lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'As an employee you have a duty of loyalty to your employer' Incredibly naive if someone does this. In a employee/employer relationship, I believe one should only be loyal to themselves. Again, have integrity and don't steal stuff, but be loyal to yourself.

This is a legal concept. You have to be loyal to your employer. You can’t intentionally undermine their business, charge them for hours you didn’t work, etc. It doesn’t mean that you have to go out of your way to advance their ends.

Which jurisdiction, can you cite precedent?

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#44
> Is this sort of thing actually enforceable?

I feel like this question is kind of moot. If this company goes as far as putting it into the contract, they may try to fire/sue you even if it's not enforceable. Do you want to spend time in the court and money on a lawyer even if you'd win? If not, either comply or tell the company to take a hike.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#45
I'm not a lawyer and the best advice is to check everything with a lawyer...that said it sounds like the contract would be covered by Cypriot and (if you're in the south) EU law.

I live in Ireland and these sorts of clauses are pretty standard, but I don't know how enforceable they are...there's a lot of nuance. For example, creating a direct competitor will probably put you on shaky ground as it could be argued that you used company trade secrets to gain an advantage.

If you create something completely unrelated it could come down to whether you used any company resources in the process i.e. a company laptop, company email, worked on the project during work hours etc. But even if you create something unrelated and didn't use any company resources that doesn't mean your employer won't try to enforce the clause which could result in a whole bunch of expensive litigation which you probably don't want to have to deal with.

What I have seen work is discussing any side projects (including open source) you're going to work on with your employer first and get written confirmation that they're waiving their right to enforce this clause. They may have legitimate concerns about what you're doing (is it competing with their business, will it be a distraction from your work etc) that you may have to address. This may not work in every case, but usually does.

Ultimately you need a paper trail to ensure you can prove the project wasn't something your employer was paying you for, but as I said if you anticipate your employer enforcing this clause you probably want to think hard about whether you want to have that fight.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#46
The language is ambiguous and childish, nothing like I would expect to find in a legal document written by an adult and meant to be legally binding or even taken seriously.

  "The employee shall shall not be allowed to provide any services to another company and not to run any other business"
This clause sounds like an instruction for the employee's handler.

Also, the employee "shall shall"? wtf?

Or maybe it just applies to Mr. Shall, first name Shall.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#47
If it's just code and there is no money involved, then it's not a business - A business necessarily involves customers and money. Of course company directors will tend to say that side projects are not allowed; they prefer it if their employees don't do (in order to protect the company's interests).

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#48
I've had companies try to take my OSS projects. It seems that the smaller the company, the greater the likelihood that they'll try (you can get some real dicks who go on power trips in small companies, whereas larger companies tend to have a bureaucracy tempered by good lawyers and usually cooler heads).

The first rule is: Go to a lawyer and discuss such matters with them. Consultations are cheap. Often you can get clauses you don't like stricken from the contract (I do this all the time, and as a bonus it helps filter out companies that will become a problem in future).

The second rule is: If they refuse to negotiate on the points you don't like, consider working somewhere else.

Re: Ask HN: Should a 'no side projects' policy be taken seriously?

#50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a legal concept. You have to be loyal to your employer. You can’t intentionally undermine their business, charge them for hours you didn’t work, etc. It doesn’t mean that you have to go out of your way to advance their ends.

Which jurisdiction, can you cite precedent?

Quick Google shows this to be true in common law jurisdictions and every civil law jurisdiction I saw relevant information on.
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