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Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

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Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#41
post #24

It is easy to rule out meditation being a scam - most of the people who are willing to explain it aren't trying to charge money for the idea, nobody I know of is trying to sell paraphernalia and while there are books they are rare vs more generic self-help novels. The behaviour of practitioners doesn't make sense if they don't see a benefit. Particularly when observing the Buddhist monks it is clear that by and large…

> It is easy to rule out meditation being a scam - most of the people who are willing to explain it aren't trying to charge money for the idea, nobody I know of is trying to sell paraphernalia and while there are books they are rare vs more generic self-help novels. The behaviour of practitioners doesn't make sense if they don't see a benefit What? Mindfulness is an industry in itself. Books, videos, podcasts, semina…

Then those parts probably are a scam and should be avoided.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#43
> What exactly is [formula]

At Harward a bunch of young guys appeared who had an interest in some ideas coming from the east. One is Daniel Goleman ("emotional intelligence" etc). Others developed their "western constructions" over it. That formula you mention in the title is one.

> Some

You are constantly confusing practical advice ("try this and that") with the real thing - as if the point were "sleep" or "focus" or "relax" and you were criticizing "count sheep", "breathe deeply", "contract your muscle and release".

And your approach is fully alien to the matter: e.g. there is no «discussion» about it, it is not in that realm.

If you want to understand the matter, you will have to avoid those superficial, formal considerations and get an idea of the practical goal.

But then again, if you are so used to that kind of approach you showed - which you should not spend on things that do not match it: if you intend to remain in that approach, you should practice it on appropriate topics; if something in you is actually interested, you will have to abandon that unfitting framework. Don't tackle things with persistently short curiosity. The mental framework is built by the matter studied - otherwise it would be like applying e.g. (just figuratively) that of an historian to molecular biology.

Maybe start with approaching Mathematics: there is no really "concept", "word", "discussion" there in the way you used them (you would not be able to solve problems if you focused on the wrong things) - you will have to "go to the thing directly" instead of dreaming ideas about it.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#44
In my experience, mindfulness meditation is a form of exercise for your brain. You are increasing your brain's capacity to control, move, and manipulate your thoughts and mental processes, analogous to how weight training might allow you to increase your capacity to control, move, or manipulate heavy external objects.

Sure, it's true that we always "focus" on something, but, like there is a difference in degree between a trained weightlifter and a non-weightlifter, there is a difference in the ability to focus that comes from intentional practice.

Of course there are people who are able to practice mindfulness in their lives without meditation, just like there are people who have strength without going to the gym - they just got a similar result from a different path. It certainly doesn't mean you can't practice mindfulness, any more than the existence of a strong (e.g.) construction worker means you can't practice weightlifting.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#45
The modern adaptations of meditation largely position meditation as a way to experience peace/calm/rest and to develop self-awareness of your thoughts that allows you space to change your inner environment. These are both true and great.

But the actual, original purpose of any inward looking practice -- meditation, inquiry, contemplation -- is to discover the nature of your consciousness, to answer the question, "who or what am I?" by starting with the only part of our experience that is not changeful -- our awareness that we exist.

When you begin to try to honestly answer this question -- "when I say 'I', what am I referring to? this body? this mind? how can I know what I am, beyond a theory or thought? etc" -- it leads to a radical and yet in retrospect totally natural process of self-investigation -- turning your self-awareness upon itself -- whose end product is called self-realization, spiritual awakening or enlightenment.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we focus we do not really focus. How do you know that? How do you measure and decide if you focus enough?

You can measure how many times you get distracted, and how far do you get dragged. This is very easy to do during meditation.

Yes, but who decides the standard here?

I am distracted 5 times a minute. Is it good enough or should I continue practicing?

And in the end - why is this a bad thing, to be distracted? If it’s in our nature in the first place?

I’m not being sarcastic - I truly want to know the deep answers from someone knowledgeable, but didn’t find any answers yet.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can measure how many times you get distracted, and how far do you get dragged. This is very easy to do during meditation.

Yes, but who decides the standard here? I am distracted 5 times a minute. Is it good enough or should I continue practicing? And in the end - why is this a bad thing, to be distracted? If it’s in our nature in the first place? I’m not being sarcastic - I truly want to know the deep answers from someone knowledgeable, but didn’t find any answers yet.

You decide what you are comfortable with :) however in general we can roughly decide if someone is struggling or not.

There are no "right and deep answers" for questions like this.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#50
I can't say much about mindfulness meditation specifically, but I've been practicing Catholic (specifically, Iesuit) meditation weekly for over a year now. Also, after my first experiences with it I talked with a friend who tried some non-Christian meditation a few times (can't recall if specifically Buddhist or "secular") - he seemed to say there are apparently a lot of similarities between those (but I didn't explore the topic further, or whether they have common historical roots or not). So, can at least try throwing in a few thoughts being kinda practitioner.

So, in shortest words, what definitely surprised me most was that there seems to be something to it. I went to the first Iesuit "retreat" very sceptic and with an attitude basically of: "meh, I'm a Catholic, so by this logic, praying isn't the worst thing I could waste a ~week on". Trying to summarize most succintly and "secularly", the gist of it for me is, that during meditation, I tend to get thoughts in my mind that I just didn't see coming. It's not any kind of "voice". Those feel 100% like my regular thoughts; just the conclusions and ideas I get from them are quite often completely surprising and unexpected to me - if in subtle ways and generally on topic of "how to live life", what's important, etc. Interestingly to me, I find that those thougts tend to align with and seem to help me understand the Bible. Also what I found very surprising, is that through meditation of the Bible fragments and also trying to meditate scenes from my life that might be relevant, I seem to be finding new meanings in the Bible. That was a huge surprise to me, given how being a Catholic long time, I heard a lot of those quotes tons of time already, and heard them interpreted various ways tons of times, and my general opinion before was that there's not really much more that I could find there, and was rather sceptic towards then notion of people finding deep meaning in Bible by studying it more. So much sceptic before, some suddenly seem understand now, very unexpected and surprise.

One "sceptic/physicist" thought I tend to be having on that, is basically kind of reminding me of "simulated annealing" and leaving local maxima in search for more global ones. Which, even if true (seems a huge simplification, given we still don't really know much about mind, and basically zero about consciousness), doesn't oppose faith to me personally. If I believe that God created the world, I also believe he created physics etc. the way He wanted them, so "trivially" He created them in a way to make meditation & simulated annealing work like that. But that's probably not super interesting to you :)

So, just my $0.02, in case that could help you in any way.

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