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Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

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Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#41
post #39
post #29

The best learnt behavior I have is to slow down. In practice that means using phrases like "Let me think about that for a second", and maybe looking at or writing notes. As an interviewer, if anyone actually took a minute to think about what I had just asked them, I would consider that a huge positive signal.

Someone posted this Steve Jobs response the other day that demonstrates this well. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o ) . Even in front of an audience that size, there is no rush to answer. He takes quite a while to consider a response first. That said, he is still amazing at how he can have (apparently) a long narrative in mind as he starts to answer. I work with an architect who I can spring a complex qu…

> "There are four things I would...", and I'm thinking "Damn! You already thought through the entire response in enough detail to count the bullet points!"

As someone in a similar role – it's all cheating. They've seen a version of your problem so many times it doesn't feel new to them. While you were talking, the architect was walking down a decision tree of possible problem patterns. Every new clue you provided eliminated part of the tree until the only thing that was left were 4 options that you can eliminate or confirm by asking followup questions or doing followup investigation.

Once identified, you use the off-the-shelf solution in your brain. Slightly tweaked for the current problem.

That's what people buy when they hire for experience.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#42
system design and behavior interviews expect you to put up an oscar worthy performance.

There is no way to "design instagram" in a super fluid straight line thought process. Only way to beat this system is to prepare and have notes handy where you can go from point to point.

Eg: you are expected in system design to have these 4 components

1) functional requirement 2) non functional requirement 3) back of envelope calculations 4) components of design.

Similarly for behavior you need STAR format with actual numbers ( improved latency of 20%)

Freestyling in an interview is a recipe for failure.

Ppl complain about leetcode but i find these interviews really embarrassing for all parties to involved to participate in this charade.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#43
post #24

1. As others have said, practice is the only real way to get better. If you can carve out the time, interviewing even if you aren't actively looking to change jobs is a good idea. 2. Specifically to your question about proper narrative, people often recommend the STAR (Situation -> Tasks required of you -> Actions that you took -> Results that you achieved) framework for answers. It can definitely sound a little robo…

+1 for the STAR method, I find it helps with off-the-cuff answers too as it keeps me focused.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#44
post #2

Preparation. Anyone who has done public speaking knows that it's a lot of work to be a good speaker. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says you have to be 10x more prepared than you need to be. He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research. One interviewer asked Neil whether it was worth the $3B mission to Saturn. He brought up that it's $3B over 12 years and that it's how much…

> He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research.

Part of the reason Neil DeGrasse Tyson is so painful to watch/listen to (especially on his recent appearances) is that this over-preparation or expectation of specific talking points comes off as smugness, interrupting behavior, etc... is it this which hurts the flow of conversation and even seemed to exasperate Joe Rogan during their talk recently?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwZXR2PlcEM

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#45
This is a bit wild, but learning and being fluid in MECE changed my life. Not really, but it really helped me in interviews and all types of conversations. Check out How to be MECE on Youtube. MECE = mutually exhaustive and completely exclusive.

The short version is that when you describe something you want to divide it up into mutually exclusive and completely exhaustive chunks. There are five ways to be MECE - algebraic, process, conceptual, segmenting, and opposite words (in descending priority of insight).

For example, if you are asked a question about how increase revenue for a grocery store, then you break it down into revenue = number of tickets * value per ticket, and then you can attack it that way. This would be the algebraic way to be MECE.

Trick A is that almost all conversations can be broken into MECE, and that gives good practice. E.g. if you are planning a road trip then when you are talking about it you use a process MECE to add structure.

Trick B is that it takes about an hour or two to be fluid in applying MECE to a given domain, just start picking random topics and breaking them down, and the more insightful the better. E.g. how would you describe the items on a menu? Different programming languages? Features you worked on?

If you do that, then it gives a proper narrative, good structure, and you can use the time where you are setting up the structure to think about everything else. By running through all items in the MECE list it shows that you are thorough and you have literally thought of everything (because you've created an exhaustive list).

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#46
post #45

This is a bit wild, but learning and being fluid in MECE changed my life. Not really, but it really helped me in interviews and all types of conversations. Check out How to be MECE on Youtube. MECE = mutually exhaustive and completely exclusive. The short version is that when you describe something you want to divide it up into mutually exclusive and completely exhaustive chunks. There are five ways to be MECE - alge…

> fluid

Fluent?

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#47
post #2

Preparation. Anyone who has done public speaking knows that it's a lot of work to be a good speaker. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says you have to be 10x more prepared than you need to be. He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research. One interviewer asked Neil whether it was worth the $3B mission to Saturn. He brought up that it's $3B over 12 years and that it's how much…

> If you answer immediately, you will "ummmm uhhh" a lot. Learn to take a breather and buy time. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten for this was: If you're pausing to think, just be silent. Practice for a while and have someone call you out on it. It's a hard habit to break, but someone who doesn't fill space with "um" will sound twice as smart.

It's an especially hard habit to break for people who are "Team Interrupt", because we learn to cling to the speaker position in normal group conversations this way. People from "Team Wait" are probably much more natural in staying silent for a second (I wouldn't know for sure, but I think I'm observing this in others).

[1] Team Interrupt/Team Wait: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LuXb6CZG4x7pDRBP8/wait-vs-in...

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#48
post #2

Preparation. Anyone who has done public speaking knows that it's a lot of work to be a good speaker. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says you have to be 10x more prepared than you need to be. He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research. One interviewer asked Neil whether it was worth the $3B mission to Saturn. He brought up that it's $3B over 12 years and that it's how much…

First time I gave a presentation, an experienced speaker congratulated me afterwards. I said that I’d had to rehearse the talk 5 times before I gave it. He said he still rehearsed his 10 times.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#49

Regarding verbal crutches, the best advice I've received is to just say nothing instead, and pauses never feel as long to the other parties as they do you. So when you feel yourself saying "umm" or "mmmaa", instead say nothing, take a breath, and move forward. With English not being your first language, I think you can apply this plan to formulating your responses in general. Just take a moment, plan your reply, and…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#50
Take breaks as you talk! Pause in silence. Whether you are giving a technical answer, or answering a behavioral/scenario question, make it a conversation with pauses and opportunities for your interviewer to help steer.

As an interviewer, the worst candidates are the ones who just launch into a stream of words, talking and talking and talking with no break. Just a continuous stream of consciousness or memorized prepared pitch. Especially for the really open ended questions! It should be a conversation, not a one-way word salad.

I've had candidates answer the simple "Tell me about your background" question with a continuous 10-minute stream of words. I've more than once had to physically wave my hands and flag them down to stop. I've had a candidate who misheard part of my question and started answering something I never asked, and the candidate never provided an "in" for me to provide a correction and turn them in the right direction. Just non-stop words with no breaks. So many candidates do this. I don't know--are interview prep guides telling them this is a good strategy? It's not!

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