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Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#41

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

implements wrote: post #8

Looks like boilerplate to me. 4 is telemetry, with a catch-all that any data may be transmitted - which is necessary if a crash dump might contain image data. 5 is updates, with the catch-all that updates may break stuff or remove features (often buggy features or features too rarely used to be worth maintaining). Pretty standard stuff for anything containing software, and perhaps because the camera is so expensive t…

> probably worth giving them the benefit of the doubt

My lawyer would have a seizure if I showed this to them. If I had a lawyer, of course.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#43

Post by kwhitefoot »

nescioquid wrote: post #25

I have been under the impression that EULAs have not really been tested in court and that there is probably some reticence to actually attempt enforcement in case the result would invalidate the practice of EULAs altogether. Normally, when you agree to a license, it is available for review and is agreed to before the purchase has been completed. Software EULAs -- presented after purchase -- seem more like a mugging.…

> EULAs have not really been tested in court

In Europe they do not need to be tested in court. They are not part of the contract of sale because you cannot see them before you complete the purchase. They are unenforceable.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#44

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

elmerfud wrote: post #7

I'm sure it's the cyoa language like most Eula have. The bad publicity from actually enforcing stuff like this or attempting to enforce it is something most companies don't want to deal with but they stick this nonsense in anyway just in case. Most of this looks fairly boilerplate ever looked through like a Windows license agreement or something. Even the agreement for purchasing this product probably has very simila…

> software is as an integral as a component to an electronic device as spark plugs are to a gasoline engine

I've never had a spark plug removed from an engine due to quarterly updates.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#45

Post by kube-system »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #41
implements wrote: post #8

Looks like boilerplate to me. 4 is telemetry, with a catch-all that any data may be transmitted - which is necessary if a crash dump might contain image data. 5 is updates, with the catch-all that updates may break stuff or remove features (often buggy features or features too rarely used to be worth maintaining). Pretty standard stuff for anything containing software, and perhaps because the camera is so expensive t…

> probably worth giving them the benefit of the doubt My lawyer would have a seizure if I showed this to them. If I had a lawyer, of course.

I've hired a few, and they're all well aware that sloppy boilerplate is commonplace. They often suggest you take a realist approach to the situation as a whole, and consider the incentives of those involved.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#47

Post by mysterydip »

trhway wrote: post #35
bzxcvbn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. I bought a hammer the other day and could start using it without signing away any of my rights. It's pretty much only digital products that somehow force you to do that.

>I bought a hammer the other day and could start using it without signing away any of my rights. The "smart hammers" are coming. And how about Peloton style group hammering.

Haven't you ever wondered how many hits you've done? Your accuracy to the center of the face? Could your swing be improved? What's your hits per minute average? How do your stats compare to other contractors, or workers for the same construction company? I bet company owners would be interested to know ;) Coming soon, just sign the EULA and run a firmware update!

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#48

Post by vmception »

implements wrote: post #8

Looks like boilerplate to me. 4 is telemetry, with a catch-all that any data may be transmitted - which is necessary if a crash dump might contain image data. 5 is updates, with the catch-all that updates may break stuff or remove features (often buggy features or features too rarely used to be worth maintaining). Pretty standard stuff for anything containing software, and perhaps because the camera is so expensive t…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#49

Post by kube-system »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #44
elmerfud wrote: post #7

I'm sure it's the cyoa language like most Eula have. The bad publicity from actually enforcing stuff like this or attempting to enforce it is something most companies don't want to deal with but they stick this nonsense in anyway just in case. Most of this looks fairly boilerplate ever looked through like a Windows license agreement or something. Even the agreement for purchasing this product probably has very simila…

> software is as an integral as a component to an electronic device as spark plugs are to a gasoline engine I've never had a spark plug removed from an engine due to quarterly updates.

Chevrolet replaced some folding keyfobs with old style fixed keys as a part of their ignition switch recalls.

Tesla has pushed software updates to remove features.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#50

Post by kstrauser »

vmception wrote: post #48
implements wrote: post #8

Looks like boilerplate to me. 4 is telemetry, with a catch-all that any data may be transmitted - which is necessary if a crash dump might contain image data. 5 is updates, with the catch-all that updates may break stuff or remove features (often buggy features or features too rarely used to be worth maintaining). Pretty standard stuff for anything containing software, and perhaps because the camera is so expensive t…

Quoted post unavailable.

That's not appeal to authority. That's just advice to take their reputation into consideration.
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