You can have a distributed ledger without the proof of work, e.g. hypercore ( https://hypercore-protocol.org/ ), scuttlebutt ( https://scuttlebutt.nz/docs/protocol/ ).
https://www.hyperledger.org/ and Trillian (https://transparency.dev/) as well
Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
41–50 of 81 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#42A heuristic I like to use is that when someone presents many reasons for why they like or dislike something, they’re usually excluding the main reason.
The rationale for this is that causes are often power-law distributed in importance, so the top reason will be most of it and the other reasons are merely supplementary or for the purpose of argument.
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't find the energy/environmental arguments compelling. US military accounts for almost half of US fuel consumption, 10-20% of the federal budget, and hundreds of toxic waste sites throughout the world. Propping-up the petrodollar has been their primary occupation for at least the last decade, if not longer.
You find find an argument from me that the energy consumption of the US military is somehow acceptable. However, all of that energy consumption being used by crypto is at the mercy of a desperately small number of speculators, hobbyists, and marks. For what it accomplishes - the actual utility it provides, which is to say, very little - it is an astonishingly energy-hungry system. Even compared to traditional banking…
Even though many of these things are grifts wrapped in scams boxed in hustles, the idea of fiat currency upheld by energy and math seems like an improvement over a fiat currency upheld by energy and weapons, and a worthwhile endeavor.
BTC has beaten my money market account by a ridiculous amount. As a store of wealth, it has done its job well so far. People keep saying that it's a bubble, and perhaps it is. My gut tells me that the Weimerica scenario is just as likely as a BTC bubble-burst. I like having a variety of baskets to put my eggs in.
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#44> [...] but the distributed ledger system is pretty interesting, isn't it?
Yes, the protocol itself is pretty interesting and I've seen no one bashing Satoshi. If anything, Satoshi is often venerated on this website for his impeccable technical and communication skills - and for good reason IMO as the body of work he left is astounding.
A big part of parties involved don't understand the first thing about currencies and yet they want to disrupt "currencies". Don't understand the trade-offs of democracies but they claim that BTC will "democratise money".
So put together all these absurdities that we often have to bring down on HN and I can why someone would consider that "hate". It's not hate it is healthy criticism. Before disrupting something, you need to make sure you understand the reasons behind specific choices the society made.
That said, crypto-currencies are here to stay, eUSD, eEUR, etc. are on the way :-)
ps. Isn't it ironic that Satoshi invented BTC as a non-centralised system and instead the tech will be used to enable the most tightly controlled monetary flow ever :-P
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#45Core features of crypto are a severe detriment to crypto holders: if you lose your passphrase/private key that money is gone forever* and if you get scammed you have little recourse outside the legal system. If you can solve those two things I'm more likely to get on board. As far as I know, they can't be solved, so to me it's a non-starter.
* unless you put it in a third party service, that likely isn't insured for the full value of all deposits
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#46I have a simple question.
Are cryptocurrencies supposed to be good currencies, or good investments?
Because you cannot be both. The purpose of a good currency is diametrically opposed to the purpose of a good investment.
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#47The amount of overhead that comes with using a cryptocurrency is a bit nuts to me, huge 20GB+ Blockchain files that need to be on ssd storage, and the bloated and unstable software that goes with it.
The fees are also huge in some cases, it costs a lot to send or exchange it. And it can take a long time for transfers to complete.
There a few things that benefit from Blockchain, but the majority of projects would be better off without it imo.
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#48What I don't like about cryptocurrencies are the mining methods that are all "fastest gun in the west" and/or "I got lucky - gimme coins!"
"Public" tracking of transactions is interesting - but gets to be unwieldy very quickly
There probably ought to be a mix of "everybody has/can verify/sees every transaction" and "no one cares that THIS cryptocoin bought a donut 8 years ago - get over yourself already"
I would like to see a mechanism of aging-out transactions after X period of time, or X number of transactions, or some combination of the two
There also needs to be a way to penalize hoarders - if cryptocurrencies are supposed to be CURRENCY, they need to be in circulation. Artificially removing currency form circulation as some kind of "investment" technique hurts the currency as a whole (especially with capped currencies like Bitcoin).
Using "traditional" currency as an example, when you deposit your money in a bank, it doesn't stay there - it keeps moving around[0]. Money that gets stuffed into a mattress, on the other hand, intrinsically loses value (and not merely because of inflation) because it's not being used. Additionally, money that's hoarded becomes a risk to the hoarder - have a house fire? It's gone. Someone breaks into your root cellar where you cleverly disguised your stash in empty pickle jars? Gone. With no recourse.
The same happens with cryptocurrencies that stagnate. I know I have a couple bitcoin lying around on a harddrive somewhere. That I can never access. Because I lost the wallet access code. Yes, it's my fault for forgetting. But they might as well not exist, since they're inaccessible. My flub hurt the entire Bitcoin ecosystem (to some degree) because they can never again be circulated.
---------------
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#49The amount of overhead that comes with using a cryptocurrency is a bit nuts to me, huge 20GB+ Blockchain files that need to be on ssd storage, and the bloated and unstable software that goes with it. The fees are also huge in some cases, it costs a lot to send or exchange it. And it can take a long time for transfers to complete. There a few things that benefit from Blockchain, but the majority of projects would be b…
Converting real property deeds into a public ledger could make a great deal of sense (except for the title search companies and local government records workers)
It's public information as to who owns what property - why is it all locked-up in file cabinets more-or-less randomly distributed through the country?
Re: Ask HN: Why is cryptocurrency so hated here?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't find the energy/environmental arguments compelling. US military accounts for almost half of US fuel consumption, 10-20% of the federal budget, and hundreds of toxic waste sites throughout the world. Propping-up the petrodollar has been their primary occupation for at least the last decade, if not longer.
Your argument is, “This thing may be bad, but what about this other thing that I think is even worse?” It doesn’t address why you don’t find the arguments compelling. Do you think energy impact is completely trivial?
In a crypto vs. fiat world, the energy consumption argument doesn't hold water when fiat probably uses just as much (or even more) energy.