literally nobody.
Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
41–50 of 71 posts
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious. What was your experience working with attorneys? I heard an anecdote from a law student that the classmates were highly competitive about grades. Less anecdotally, there was a recent Financial Times article about corporate lawyers at one firm billing ~100 hours each week, and others sleeping only ~5 hours a night. It also reported a more accurate measurement from a survey: "That level of exhaustion is ta…
Though: Software Engineering is not doing all that well on the mental health front either, as far as professions go. See [1] which I found kind of shocking, though I don't know what those numbers look like for other professions or in the general population. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demog...
Software Engineering is an appealing profession for people with several of the issues on this list (in particular: social anxiety, ADHD, spectrum disorders) so this is not surprising.
You are mixing up cause and effect; working as a developer is not causing ADHD, bi-polar disorder or spectrum disorders.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#43i heard being a patent lawyer is super boring
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#44FWIW: IAAL and I also have a CS educational background but never really worked as an engineer outside of academia. I spent a few years in the middle of my legal career working primarily on patent prosecution, which is the work also done by patent agents. I would personally not recommend patent prosecution to any lawyer or aspiring lawyer. Patent prosecutors hold a second class status within the legal profession, some…
From my observations, I think patent litigation is pretty high up on the legal totem pole. Patent lawyers who focus on actual litigation (through federal district courts, as opposed to the USPTO PTAB (Patent Trial and Appeal Board) are responsible for cases that have legal fees at the $10M-level. But to support your point, a trial attorney who focuses on patent litigation is not necessarily a patent lawyer (though ca…
Agreed. For those who don't know, the term "patent prosecution" is US legal industry jargon referring to the process of applying for and obtaining a patent. The term is used as a shorthand to refer to a common specialty area that focuses on that kind of work and certain related non-litigation matters. Patent prosecution specialists sometimes also get involved in litigation but typically in a secondary or supporting role. This to some degree reflects the two-class system I referred to. From personal experience and anecdote it is common for patent prosecution specialists to seek to get involved in litigation because, essentially, it is "easier to make your hours" as I remember one colleague putting it, but often opportunities are limited because of the unofficial two-class system that exists.
Patent litigation is an important sub-area of litigation work and practitioners in that area are not especially likely to have STEM backgrounds (unlike patent prosecution specialists) and are not expected to be USPTO-registered. You can see evidence of the two-class system in the academic backgrounds of the lawyers involved -- patent prosecution specialists are more likely to have attended less prestigious law schools than the patent litigation specialists at a given firm. It's my sense that outside the US the equivalent of patent prosecution lawyers are typically not members of the legal profession and often work in small firms focused entirely on patent and trademark procurement grunt work.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#45I went from electrical engineering (logic design and then aerospace) and went to law school (night school) specifically for patent law. I now have 14 years as a patent attorney writing patents. It is definitely a change of pace from designing circuits to a largely technical writing career. However, (with a small "boutique" firm) the hours are more flexible, the work is rewarding due to always learning new technology…
I think it really depends on which part of the industry you are working on, the stuff you describe matches my experience as an "inventor". I think there are two patent industries now:
One is writing patents for new, novel, and interesting things and doing all the other things you describe.
The other is churning out crappy patents as quickly as possible and flooding the patent office with whatever will stick.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though: Software Engineering is not doing all that well on the mental health front either, as far as professions go. See [1] which I found kind of shocking, though I don't know what those numbers look like for other professions or in the general population. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demog...
Software Engineering is an appealing profession for people with several of the issues on this list (in particular: social anxiety, ADHD, spectrum disorders) so this is not surprising. You are mixing up cause and effect; working as a developer is not causing ADHD, bi-polar disorder or spectrum disorders.
Good point.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#47My office mate and good friend of many years is a patent agent. He was/is industrial/electronic/radio but then pursued patent agent 100% for a while. Ultimately he came back to tech, but acts as a sort of front line patent agent for our company as well. We have many discussions about the inanity of the whole system. I’m an idealist, he’s more of a realist about it. It exists. If nothing else, we participate from a de…
Insightful post. I like the way you describe the intellectual attraction of prosecuting patents. I am not sure I understand your point about disputes being the foundation of lawyering but not patent law specifically. Patent litigation is rife, more so than in some adjacent fields (contract, privacy etc.) Most areas of law have both non-contentious and contentious aspects.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#48I went from electrical engineering (logic design and then aerospace) and went to law school (night school) specifically for patent law. I now have 14 years as a patent attorney writing patents. It is definitely a change of pace from designing circuits to a largely technical writing career. However, (with a small "boutique" firm) the hours are more flexible, the work is rewarding due to always learning new technology…
I think it really depends on which part of the industry you are working on, the stuff you describe matches my experience as an "inventor". I think there are two patent industries now: One is writing patents for new, novel, and interesting things and doing all the other things you describe. The other is churning out crappy patents as quickly as possible and flooding the patent office with whatever will stick.
I wouldn't disagree with that characterization... Gladly, I am in the first camp (I hope).
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#49Worked as patent agent. Back in tech AMA. + extremely independent + lots of reading about different subjects + less time working on tooling or “chores” + admin to manage your calendar - much higher productivity expectations than tech - high intensity - varied knowledge of attorneys
How useful, and how common, would a PhD in life sciences (biology/biochemistry/genetics/etc.) to become a patent agent? I anecdotally heard and read of a few people who struggled to find industry work with that degree, and were then recommended to try and become patent agents/attorneys as the PhD should allegedly give them an advantage in work applications.
From what I observed back when I was working at IP-specialty firms, it's pretty common and a credential that would be sought after. I think in the life sciences area, if you wanted to get into patent agent work and didn't have a PhD it might be difficult to get a position. By contrast, in other technical fields having a PhD is relatively uncommon among patent agents. I don't know to what degree my highly negative view of patent prosecution work carries over to the life sciences area, although I believe the "two class system" exists there as well.
Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?
#50As far as made-up "bullshit jobs" go in this society, patent lawyers are likely well-positioned on the compensation scale, but if you enjoy actually building something and having some fruit of your labor to show at the end of the day, it might not be a good place for an engineer. You'll be "solving" a problem that is the result of a completely artificial and particularly badly designed system. Such jobs can get to yo…
[deleted]