Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#41

Post by giantrobot » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

vkkhare wrote: post #15

diego wrote: post #9

As I understand it, the gist of web3 is to do away with the need for having centralized organizations who control a particular resource. For example domain names, identities, speech. In the beginning, the web was supposed to be an egalitarian and democratic space. Of course corporations and governments seized as much control as they could. Today we have companies that dictate arbitrary rules. For example, there is no…

Exactly if that is the case, it should also include technologies where data ownership lies with the users. After all data itself is a huge resource. One of the biggest reasons corporates could monopolise the platform because as users we only had our own data but no access to others data. Maybe a consent mechanism to use other's data in privacy safe manner, where anyone can build their analytics models and people can…

> Maybe a consent mechanism to use other's data in privacy safe manner, where anyone can build their analytics models and people can choose which one to follow or choose. Seems like a interesting proposition.

But cryptobros are all about secondary markets. So as soon as you give permission to your data to an entity they'll copy it off-chain (you can't stop them if they can read it) and bundle it up for resale.

All this does it flip the problem. Instead of a singular entity that "owns" the data, everyone owns it. So instead of having no privacy from the singular entity with a wide reach you've got no privacy from anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#42

Post by blhack » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

Web3 replaces storing things on webservices which are run by companies like Facebook or Twitter with storing things on blockchains.

So yes, it is a crypto thing in the sense that it uses blockchain technology as the storage medium (sortof). You still need somewhere to store the data, but you can put pointers to those storage locations on chain.

Web2: Twitter knows the URL to your avatar and decided what it is (usually they listen to you).

Web3: The blockchain knows the URL to your avatar. You decide what it is and nobody can (practically) stop you.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#43

Post by hatchnyc » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

kyruzic wrote: post #6

codingdave wrote: post #3

It is nothing but a marketing term at this point. Various groups are trying to claim it and normalize their own meaning, but there is little consensus whether it even has a shared meaning.

Its a marketing term in the same way web 2 is. That doesn't mean it isn't something new and useful though, just like web 2 was.

Most revolutionary/generational tech has started with an implementation or at least a proof of concept of something new and novel that subsequently drove interest in how it worked. Like Google Maps use of AJAX for infinite scrolling or Napster and peer to peer networks, or even Bitcoin and blockchain. I’m not aware of any such example for Web3.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#44

Post by manojlds » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

vkkhare wrote: post #10

kyruzic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a marketing term in the same way web 2 is. That doesn't mean it isn't something new and useful though, just like web 2 was.

Web 2 as a term itself was coined much later when people needed to distinguish web 3 from status quo

Most definitely not. Web 2 has been in use as a term for a long while before crypto came knocking.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#45

Post by tim333 » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

cjbgkagh wrote: post #29

kyruzic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I’m only a little bit salty. Part of me cannot believe the government (or whatever powers that run this world) allows a deflationary alternative currency to continue to exist. I feel that it’s only allowed to continue in order to build a case for central bank cryptos that can substituted during an inevitable and convenient crisis. Crypto people do not seem to have endeared themselves to regular folk whose assistance…

The whole design of bitcoin was to make it difficult or impossible for governments to stop it existing. If you were the head of some government how would you do that? It's open source software that can be run on pretty much any computer in the world.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#46

Post by publiush » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

derbOac wrote: post #31

publiush wrote: post #11

Web 3.0 utilizes crypto in order to build something more than just the cryptocurrencies built in the past. A blockchain is useful in a decentralized system where a shared ledger is required. There are several different types of projects that are branding themselves Web3 -- and I think they are all correct; Web3 is a totally new web built by the people and controlled by the people. > encompensate technologies like edg…

Not to suggest blockchains don't have a role in a decentralized internet, but on the other hand aren't there a lot of decentralized resources, made or to be made, that don't require crypto or blockchain at all? I think this is where some of the confusion and skepticism comes from. Often in W3 discussions there seems to be a push to find a way to use crypto rather than an explanation of a resource, period. If a decent…

> but on the other hand aren't there a lot of decentralized resources, made or to be made, that don't require crypto or blockchain at all?

Absolutely. In the project I linked to, I'm using DHT and torrent protocols to deliver decentralization.

That said, we run into an issue in a decentralized system called Zooko's trilemma [1] when it comes to naming. Names need to be human readable, secure and decentralized. Using public keys, this isn't made possible.

> Often in W3 discussions there seems to be a push to find a way to use crypto rather than an explanation of a resource, period. If a decentralized product includes blockchain or crypto, I'm immediately skeptical and expect a good explanation for why the product can't exist without it. Usually it seems like the product doesn't need it or could be built on some other option.

In the case here, I opted to use the handshake naming protocol. Handshake's use case makes sense as decentralized networks are subject to sybil attack [1], so a free for all naming system doesn't make sense. Handshake is one of the blockchain projects I admire specifically because the blockchain project solves a problem that has limited the success of decentralized systems until now, and the purpose of the coin is to limit the ability for an attacker to take over all the names.

> I'm all for decentralized and federated solutions, but they do tend to be slower and more resource-intensive. Blockchain most of all.

I think this depends on the functionality. In the case of the handshake blockchain, lookups are faster since data is local. On the other hand, you're absolutely right as DHT is very laggy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle

[2] "A Sybil attack is defined as a small number of entities counterfeiting multiple peer identities so as to compromise a disproportionate share of the system."

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#47

Post by jrexilius » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

My personal running definition is something like: "The Web3 vision is that by leveraging publicly distributed, trustless cryptography, a contract and payment system can be tightly coupled to services, thus enabling truly decentralized coordination, execution, and delivery."... it's pretty dry. I have been writing as an exercise to force my analysis and understanding of this topic as of late. Here is my longwinded version:

https://www.jasonrexilius.com/articles/understanding-web3.ht...

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#48

Post by capnorange » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #32

lowkey wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For users Web1: read only Web2: read-write Web3: read-write-own

How do I own? I mean I realise I can buy NFTs which I guess are "web3" but then I can buy a bunch of stuff on the normal web including stock in facebook etc.

buying a stock on web2 vs web3 gives interesting properties because of ownership.

for ex: take an instant USD loan on your stock, since you are the owner only your authority(signature) is needed. In web2 world you go through middlemen.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#49

Post by capiki » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

Strom wrote: post #18

diego wrote: post #9

As I understand it, the gist of web3 is to do away with the need for having centralized organizations who control a particular resource. For example domain names, identities, speech. In the beginning, the web was supposed to be an egalitarian and democratic space. Of course corporations and governments seized as much control as they could. Today we have companies that dictate arbitrary rules. For example, there is no…

I think there are two fundamental issues that need some addressing: 1) Either the decentralized software system can't easily be updated without true consensus - which will make it slow and cumbersome (like bitcoin) or there will be a central authority that can just change the rules at any point - which will make it centralized (like Ethereum Classic vs Ethereum fork). Every web 3.0 related tech that I've peeked at lo…

I think 1) will probably never get "solved," but that's ok. I don't think the vision of DAOs replacing traditional companies will ever materialize, for example. It's just too inefficient.

What I see blockchains enabling (to what degree, tbd) is ownership of digital assets without a central party. Take concert tickets, for example. Imagine a world where transaction fees are nominal and blockchains are scalable. An artist/venue can mint tickets and have people buy them directly from them, no TicketMaster with 20% "convenience" fees needed. Now, of course, there will exist a product (probably a winner takes-all, as usual), that will serve as the UI to mint the tickets. But a significant value add of such products, the validation of tickets via the authority of their name, will be replaced by the blockchain. I don't know exactly what that'll look like, but I don't think that's insignificant.

Re: Ask HN: Is Web 3.0 just crypto or something more?

#50

Post by grepfru_it » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

togaen wrote: post #21

vkkhare wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web 2 as a term itself was coined much later when people needed to distinguish web 3 from status quo

Wrong. The term “Web 2.0” was coined back in 1999.

Web 3.0 was used by Tim Lee back in 2006 [0]. I believe the semantic web (Web 3.0) was coined back in '99

0 - https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/23/technology/23iht-web.html