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Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

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Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#41
Could it be that your over 30?

There is a problem known as the multi-armed bandit problem[0]. The problem deals with situations where you have to chose between different options you could take, but you don't start off with full knowledge of the options. You can spend time learning the options (exploring) or you can spend time using the best option you already know of (exploit). Importantly, you can't do both at the same time.

In general, good strategies start with a phase of exploring followed by exploiting.

Humans follow this pattern as well. For us, it seems we spend our late childhood, thru our teens, and into our early 20's in a heavily explore-biased state then switch to exploit biased for our 30's and later.

So the thing that happened to "exploring the internet" is you got older. Exploring for the sake of exploring is no longer as innately desirable to you know as it was when you were younger. You can still do it now. In many ways there are new tools that make it easier (see other posts) but it will likely feel more like work in a way which wasn't true when you were younger.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-armed_bandit

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#42
I asked myself this question about a year ago. There are a lot of sites similar to Stumbleupon, but all of them were exhausted quite fast or had the same sites listed. That's why I built my own internet discovery website based on what I remembered from Stumbleupon. https://stumbled.to

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#43

Here's a tortious causal chain that I think explains everything. Computing evolved up the point of Multics. The military has always been a driver of computing research to some extent. The deployment of computing resources to help plan airstrike missions showed a critical need for developing a system in which a single computer could handle multiple levels of secure data. The research resulted in capability based secur…

I generally don't like to bring any attention to language, but I do wonder if you mean tortious.

Yeah, I really don't think you should (and neither should I), since we're never as smart as we think we are.

The author did not mean tortious, but instead tortuous. But one immediately gathers this from the context anyway. Who cares what the spelling is?

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#44

Well for starters, we used to call it "Surfing the Internet" not "exploring the internet". The modern web was designed to rope you in and keep you there. Look up random stuff that interests you, not using a big name search engine. Then if you find a site on a webring, and look at connecting sites.

You mean Internet Explorer isn't for exploring the internet!

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#45
post #6

https://stumblingon.com/

I was going to say that the death of StumbleUpon really closed off whole portions of the web for me. Their algorithms were really top-notch and the replacement service isn't worth checking out. Does anyone know why they killed off StumbleUpon? It was probably the best part of 2005-2015 for me. Edit: I like your link but it seems to lack the interest-targeting algorithms that SU used to have.

I cite my comment from Reddit I posted some time ago explaining what happened to SU:

> Stumbleupon had a declining user base because more and more spam flooded the site. Moderation couldn’t just keep up to it. As a result, advertisements were increased to keep up the profits from the remaining users. As you might imagine, this pushed those remaining users off the site even more. At some point, the management decided to put effort into a new platform: Mix.com. The CEO also spent a lot of his time building Uber (yes, the taxi company).

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#46
Fond memories - things like geocities, IRC, forums, and yes even web rings were a great way to move around the internet.

I feel like web rings or something like that could be a nice thing to have again. I am not sure what format it would take these days, but I like the idea of sets of curated sites that are "opted in" to being part of a collection.

Apart from that though, I personally find that Hacker News itself is a great source - either from the stories themselves, or usually the individual comments have some great links.

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#47

Could it be that your over 30? There is a problem known as the multi-armed bandit problem[0]. The problem deals with situations where you have to chose between different options you could take, but you don't start off with full knowledge of the options. You can spend time learning the options (exploring) or you can spend time using the best option you already know of (exploit). Importantly, you can't do both at the s…

Is there a source or research around humans following this pattern?

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#48
For some reason this post brought to my mind the website of Fravia [1]. It is defunct now (he died 10+ years ago) but it is archived and various mirrors exist (have a look at the wikipedia page [2]).

I never really got to explore the website in depth but the few articles I've read I remember to have been very interesting. More important he had some tips on how to make better searches to uncover websites that might not be high on the results list. Granted this information might be outdated now but I think it is worth a look.

[1] www.fravia.com

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravia

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#49
post #42

I asked myself this question about a year ago. There are a lot of sites similar to Stumbleupon, but all of them were exhausted quite fast or had the same sites listed. That's why I built my own internet discovery website based on what I remembered from Stumbleupon. https://stumbled.to

This looks/works really well. Good job!

Re: Ask HN: Whatever happened to exploring the internet?

#50

Recently I began "exploring the internet" again with the help of a niche search engine that was posted here on HN not that long ago [1]. Seems like it returns lesser known, interesting, contrarian websites where the authors speak their mind. For example I found websites that: speculate that milk and lactose might be a hidden cause for several chronic conditions [2]; try to re-explain evolution by re-positioning the r…

A lot of this was painful. I'll comment on bwo.life, since it is somewhat close to some of the things I know a little bit more about.

> Despite all this life and death, I doubt whether anyone would be tempted to describe the embryo’s cells as “red in tooth and claw”. Nor do I think anyone would appeal to “survival of the fittest” or natural selection as the fundamental principle governing what goes on during normal development. The life and death of cells appears to be governed, rather, by the developing form of the whole in which they participate.

This is precisely the sort of BS you get when you do not participate actively in a field, but instead go off on the side to live in your own world. During development, suvival of the fittest is very much at play; we have evidence for this, for example in the developmental trajectories of stem cell niches. Cells outcompete each other, and make it difficult for other varieties of cells to "live" along side them (this does not necessarily result in apoptosis, it can also cause re-differentiation in the less "successful" cells). A crucial reason for this is error correction: sometimes, new cells are defective in various dangerous ways (e.g. cancerous, or have problematic genetic information), and "survival of the fittest" helps to error-correct for this, as usually such defective cells are "less fit".

What's surprising here is that cells can change their fitness, "on purpose", in ways that do not make evolutionary sense. They might be programmed to reduce their fitness, or entirely explode, if they receive certain inputs. So, clearly this is an emergent process where we must take into account cellular programming along side "naive" natural selection.

"Old hat" to biologists, really, in that they have been studying this. They're studying it until today. New things are discovered all the time. There is no sense of certainty, only that there are some general outlines emerging.

Coming back then to this article: saddening, if not disgusting in its pretentiousness. Link [4]is even more depressing. I don't know if people understand how dangerous quackery is: it destroys lives. Most importantly, it destroys the lives of children whose parents fall into this.

The broader internet (being difficult to explore given how modern internet ecologies box us in) is thankfully not made up primarily of this kind of..."garbage", but it is often painted as being that way.

So, for anyone who came across this: please don't think the un-popular internet is a cesspool of "people speaking their minds, in a convenient vacuum". Rather, there are websites where people who are humble about their understanding, even if it is substantial compared to the average person's. For example: John Baez's homepage (https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/) is far richer than link [4], and actually gives you useful knowledge.

+Fravia's lore on internet searching (and reverse engineering in general) are masterpieces; showcases of what the internet can produce, while also working as effective vaccination against disinformation: http://biostatisticien.eu/www.searchlores.org/indexo.htm

His strategies for how to search for useful information on the internet remain relevant today.

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