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Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

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Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#41

Post by pc86 »

adamrmcd wrote: post #26

Feedback on how I am doing as your manager. This isn't a dictatorship, it's a partnership. What can I do to change/help you? Most of my team is quiet on this sort of thing. Perhaps it's cultural? (Is this common for individuals who grew up in eastern Europe?)

Have you gone out of your way to make it clear you want this kind of feedback?

I've had managers who either consciously or otherwise had given me the impression that they're find with their management style and aren't really interested in changing it. That's fine and doesn't necessarily make them a bad manager, but going out of my way to provide "feedback" to them would have only harmed my career.

I've had a couple managers who explicitly told me on multiple occasions that they wanted feedback on their performance and if I thought they were doing anything wrong, inefficiently, stupid, etc., they wanted to know about it.

I've also had a couple in the middle, and for those it's much safer to just keep quiet. It's pretty high risk/low reward in that scenario.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#42

Post by pc86 »

xenihn wrote: post #38
Loughla wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Assume nothing. 2: Voice your opinion directly to your supervisor in a respectful manner, and ask for follow-up. 3: Wait for follow up and track any changes made to processes or whatever. 4: Give a reasonable amount of time. 5: Then leave. If you skip to 5, you're not really trying to fix the problem. You're just jumping ship - that's not a solution, really. Being an adult professional in the workplace requir…

What's not adult and professional about increasing your tc by 30-40% every time you jump ship

Who's talking about comp? While that's a perfectly valid reason to leave, we're talking about interpersonal interactions between a manager and an IC.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#43

Post by pc86 »

rwmj wrote: post #33
goalieca wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.

Having never done an exit interview, are they required? Did you have to do them or lose some back-pay/benefits?

They're typically scheduled during your work day after you've given notice. Why wouldn't you?

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#44

Post by goalieca »

wongarsu wrote: post #19
goalieca wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.

If they're coaching you on what to say at least they think that the higher level isn't acutely aware of all the issues. So you might still have done some good with your honesty.

At least one boss didn’t want me to make him look bad. Even the vp wanted me to understand that any problems were not his fault which seemed like a weird thing for a person responsible for thousands of employees.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#45

Post by jdavis703 »

rwmj wrote: post #33
goalieca wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.

Having never done an exit interview, are they required? Did you have to do them or lose some back-pay/benefits?

IME even if they’re mandatory you can give BS answers that sound plausible but don’t burn any bridges. Of course, you should weigh this with improving your coworkers experience and the value of any stock you may own (a high turnover rate in a knowledge-based industry is generally bad for the business.)

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#46

Post by Cthulhu_ »

codegladiator wrote: post #2

Tech debt

That's good, because it's developers that make it in the first place. If you need to talk to your manager about getting time to fix it - same with e.g. unit tests - something went really wrong somewhere.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#47

Post by jdavis703 »

gozzoo wrote: post #22
goalieca wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.

why did they think you needed to be coached? isin't the purpose of the exit interview to share your insights in order for the company to know about issues they were obviously missing or aoviding.

Because the mid-level manager doesn’t want to look bad to the VP.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#48

Post by goalieca »

gozzoo wrote: post #22
goalieca wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.

why did they think you needed to be coached? isin't the purpose of the exit interview to share your insights in order for the company to know about issues they were obviously missing or aoviding.

I’d say the exit interviews were politically motivated. Most employees had already given months/years of feedback that was never resolved before it got to that point.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#49

Post by pc86 »

hashkb wrote: post #24
neogodless wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the site guidelines, please don't talk about downvotes in comments. It never does any good, and it's boring. You can expand upon your original comment without that part, and let the votes fall where they do.

Screw the site guidelines - drive-by downvoting this comment is highly suspicious, and cowardly.

I can't even begin to imagine the bubble you must live in to ascribe words like suspicion and cowardice to someone clicking a button on a forum even most software developers in the world have never even heard of.

Re: Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

#50

Post by adamrmcd »

MadVikingGod wrote: post #34
adamrmcd wrote: post #26

Feedback on how I am doing as your manager. This isn't a dictatorship, it's a partnership. What can I do to change/help you? Most of my team is quiet on this sort of thing. Perhaps it's cultural? (Is this common for individuals who grew up in eastern Europe?)

What would this entail? I have had only a handful of managers, and only some of them good. What kind of things should I be looking for to give feedback to my manager? I kinda feel like I'm watching a glassblower and getting asked "So what do you think?". I could say if I like the piece or not, but I don't know the first thing about glassblowing to give effective criticism.

Good analogy.

It really depends on the needs of the individual contributor. For example, if you know what needs to be done, and you're blocked for one reason or another, let me know.

The key here, and the point of my original post, is communication. Any kind. Sure, some managers don't listen, but also some direct reports don't speak their mind.

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