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Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#41
post #6

So I am interested in this space. There are some alternatives out there but I suspect companies will be concerned with letting a 3rd party have access to the data needed. If you are interested in this space and would be willing to chat with me about what you're looking for OR what you are currently using I'd love to chat! My email is my username at gmail.com Some existing tooling: Google cloud search has a confluence…

Hi there. One of the first customers we had (zir-ai.com) asked for help building a better JIRA search.

I think neural-network powered search will be the long-term solution for Wiki search specifically, and SaaS search more generally.

Keyword has too many failure cases, and works poorly when there's not a lot of data, or when searching through content authored by others.

I'll contact you offline. Would love to hear more about your experience in this area.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#42

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

Well, they bought Trello and ruined it too :(

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#43

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

IMO bitbucket is okay. Its UX for PRs is amazing, 1000x better than Githubs. Especially its side by side diff. This concludes, and fully encompasses, everything good that I have to say about Atlassian products.

Atlassian bought Bitbucket after it was already mature. That's why!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#44

I don't understand why people use confluence. I can gain far more functionality with a properly implemented self-hosted mediawiki server (the same code that runs wikipedia itself) with a number of useful plugins installed and enabled. It doesn't require a rocket science level of apache2+php7+mariadb knowledge to set up. The instructions are really quite straightforward.

If this is a serious question, this is why:

Confluence users are enterprise companies, and getting a self-hosted server up and running is too much pain to be bothered to deal with.

This is a process problem. The steps to get one would be something like:

- try and find the “provision a server” option in the corporate service portal (there probably isn’t one)

- ask someone if they know how to provision one. Get a link to a separate system where you can make the request

- you need to associate the instance with a cost centre, or maybe you literally need a credit card number, don’t forget to attach written manager approval

- update the project’s budget to include the unexpected cost of this internal service. Hopefully there’s actually some margin to afford it.

- wait a day or two for the request to go through

- get the instance details, RDP in and try and set everything up. Realise you need to make a separate request for admin rights to install non-base software if you don’t want to use IIS and MSSQL server

- wait a day for admin rights. Don’t forget to add written manager approval to the request or else it will be denied

- realise you need to make a separate DNS request to get a friendly url for the team to access it. Also, how are you going to secure access to just your team members? Need to integrate with the corporate AD

- …about a dozen more steps

Compare all of that with:

- Go to the corporate confluence instance

- click “Create”, add your team members with edit rights.

- done

Confluence itself may not be a great experience to use, but it’s solving the problem of getting to the point of having a wiki setup in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#45
post #16

This thread is well timed, I was just about to pick a wiki solution and was leaning towards confluence. But search is really important to me. What’s the prevailing wisdom these days on the best solution for an internal knowledge base/wiki platform?

I'm working on one, V1 is going to be released in a few days (you can find the link in my profile). It is meant to be a big improvement to Confluence if your goal is to organize the knowledge at company or department level. If you are a smaller team, Notion is what I would recommend as long as you are smaller than 100 people

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#46
post #37

Searching corporate wiki is pretty difficult, because contrary to something like Google, you can't use context of a search query to recommend content. * First you have a few occurrence of the same search query in your search history (because only a few people searched similar words in the past) * You can't either use synonyms of remove stop words to recommend better content (IT, can means "information technology, or…

It seems like there ought to be some recognition that these are business tools, and ought to be designed with power users in mind. Instead, "search" in B2B products is built with the same uber-minimalist UX as B2C search. Even early Google had more power user features than a typical B2B product search bar. Boolean expressions (NOT, OR, AND), exact match strings, links-to, linked-from, in-folder/category, etc. should…

Knowledge management is still a neglected area in most of companies. No money => a few players. Confluence has been there for years with almost no competition. Notion has emerged recently but is not really a good fit for medium to large companies. As a result Confluence is not worried and doesn't have to improve its product.

Power users are a small share of users of knowledge management software, so it is difficult to build a system only for them. Most people just type a few words and give up if they don't find the result in the 5 first results.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#47

I don't understand why people use confluence. I can gain far more functionality with a properly implemented self-hosted mediawiki server (the same code that runs wikipedia itself) with a number of useful plugins installed and enabled. It doesn't require a rocket science level of apache2+php7+mariadb knowledge to set up. The instructions are really quite straightforward.

If this is a serious question, this is why: Confluence users are enterprise companies, and getting a self-hosted server up and running is too much pain to be bothered to deal with. This is a process problem. The steps to get one would be something like: - try and find the “provision a server” option in the corporate service portal (there probably isn’t one) - ask someone if they know how to provision one. Get a link…

And firewall rules!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#48

I don't understand why people use confluence. I can gain far more functionality with a properly implemented self-hosted mediawiki server (the same code that runs wikipedia itself) with a number of useful plugins installed and enabled. It doesn't require a rocket science level of apache2+php7+mariadb knowledge to set up. The instructions are really quite straightforward.

If this is a serious question, this is why: Confluence users are enterprise companies, and getting a self-hosted server up and running is too much pain to be bothered to deal with. This is a process problem. The steps to get one would be something like: - try and find the “provision a server” option in the corporate service portal (there probably isn’t one) - ask someone if they know how to provision one. Get a link…

Oh, and updating the CMDB too!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#49

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

Atlassian products feel like raw database frontends. I feel like each screen in each Atlassian product is always exactly a database table, being presented to me as an auto-generated form. Might as well use SQL directly.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#50
post #24

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

That's what everyone has said about every piece of enterprise software ever.

I remember what a friend said about software.

The desktop people want the latest and greatest software ASAP if not sooner.

The server people want nothing to change, ever.

I'm sure enterprise software has similar rules and incentives.

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