Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#41

Post by cloud5ir »

It really depends on your company/culture. I spoke with a variety of different EMs about their career progression and I learned there's really no single, straightforward path. Many ICs-turned-EMs were already doing the job, just lacking the title. The promotion to EM was just a natural promotion. (This is common, but takes a while and really depends on demand w/in your company and headcount requirements.) If you don't have a lot of people/team management experience or if you want to move faster, you'll probably need voice your desire to be an EM and find a leader who is willing to take a chance on you. (This is faster, but can be difficult to convince someone to trust you when you don't have experience managing people. I've seen this chicken & egg problem a lot...'how am I supposed to prove my abilities as an EM if nobody is willing to let me try?')

If you are in the latter situation, think about all the team/people/product/project management activities you've performed in the past and use that to build your narrative. You don't have to be an EM to have/demonstrate those skills. You should definitely apply and interview elsewhere...it can't hurt. Worst case, you get some practice and you get a better idea of what your industry is looking for in an EM. Best case, you get the job :)

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#42

Post by pkaler »

It depends. The main lever is where you will find a great mentor. Here are a few points you should think about:

1) Sponsorship/Mentorship. Will your current manager or another manager in the company champion your transition to a manager? Becoming a manager requires a lot of mentorship and coaching. Does HR at your company provide support? Is there a Senior Manager or Director that will mentor you?

2) Levelling. Does your company have a career ladder? Are there Staff Engineer levels? Have you reached this level as an IC? I personally would not sponsor an IC to become a manager if they haven't reached the Staff level. Staff Engineer is a sideways promotion to Manager. Senior Staff Engineer is sideways to Senior Manager.

3) Switching Companies. You should apply for a Staff Engineer position at a new company. During the interview process make it clear that you want to transition to a manager. During the negotiation phase, build a 6 month transition plan with the hiring manager.

4) Read. Read a lot. You should read all of the canonical management books.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove-e... https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Grow... https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0... https://www.amazon.com/Making-Manager-What-Everyone-Looks/dp...

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#43

Post by wil421 »

Trying to make the switch myself. My boss became a director recently and asked if I still wanted to move up. The problem now is organizational and we had a massive merger recently. The execs are still wanting to trim the fat and blocking new hires/promotions.

Recently I came across some Technical Manager jobs but the commute and lack of WFH post Covid was a deal breaker. I didn’t think they existed for someone without management experience but they do.

One thing to avoid is being called a manager but not having any reports, dotted line “reports.”

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#44

Post by wcarss »

erhserhdfd wrote: post #8

I agree with the majority of the other posters; internal is typically best. In my experience, usually how this plays out is: 1. Establish yourself has a high performing SSE. You need to build this reputation both on your direct team and department, but ideally across the org broadly. 2. Make it known you wish to become a manager at some point in the future. Have conversations with your direct manager, but also consid…

Expanding a little on #2 and those discussions, I've come to appreciate this adage: 'if you want advice, ask for money. If you want money, ask for advice'. The adage seems to still often apply after substitution of 'the thing you want' for money.

Asking around for advice about becoming a manager may help to make anyone looking for a manager consider you: you're showing you respect their opinion, and you're being thoughtful about the role, its needs, your fit, and your strategy in getting there. Conversely, asking directly if people might make you a manager may get them to instead critique your ask, your position relative to their needs, or other attributes you have.

Clearly, you will need to make it well-known to at least your own manager that management work is an interest you have and want to explore. But how you approach the topic with others who might have opportunities available can take things in very different directions.

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#45

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

I'm an IC that's been applying for dev manager positions at other companies over the last couple of weeks. I've had two interviews and both of them have gone well so far, but I haven't heard back yet as they're still interviewing other candidates. I think the biggest barrier at other companies is competition; I'm competing with folks that are already established in the role, so I've had to get really creative with the "scenarios" I come up with when they're asking me their questions.

If you have the option to try it internally, I echo the dozens of other posts here that say it'll be the easier route. Much much easier. Getting to the interview stage at another company will be hard and like I said you'll be competing against stronger candidates. On top of that you'll be going into a role you have nearly zero knowledge about and any inexperience you have will be magnified because of it. If you're like me and there's no management positions available at your company, search elsewhere as a last resort.

EDIT: Oh another thing: the only reason I'm even being considered is due to past experience as a lead developer. If you haven't had any lead positions on your resume, it'll be even harder if not impossible at most places.

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#46

Post by parksy »

I found it very difficult (edit - after being promoted internally). The company I worked for wasn't huge, probably a small team by comparison to many here of ~30 mainly developers, some designers, and a couple of PMs.

As the senior developer I'd designed most of the in-house tooling and trained most of the staff, then laid out team structures and project workflows. Over time our clients became more sophisticated and I found myself drawn more to pre-sales architecture / engineering / estimating, hiring, performance management, etc.

I was given the title of CTO, and more of my time was spent on product strategy, aligning technical strategy with business goals etc. Lots of spreadsheets, lots of modelling and planning. This would have been fine but I never was fully able or allowed to let go of my previous role. I was still the "guy" when it came to build systems, git merge conflicts, server issues, etc, and the company could never justify replacing my old role while I was still on the books.

This was stressful mainly because of context switching and workload. I was happiest when I could focus on one role or the other for extended periods. Having to wear both hats eventually wore me down, as it was hard to constantly keep the big picture in mind while having to focus on minute details like which version of SASS we should be running across our projects, or manning the support helpdesk after hours.

Switching to a new company lets you walk into a new role without the history - you might be less likely to be chased up to provide critical support or jump on the tools while you're trying to wrap your head around a 5-year digital transformation strategy for a federal contract. I switched to freelancing though so I can't speak to making the switch from experience, just what it was like to move up within a company.

Your mileage may vary, and as others commented it comes down to company culture.

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#48

Post by fatnoah »

motohagiography wrote: post #17

My experience with going back and forth between manager and IC a few times over my career (I prefer to be what I call a radical-IC, usually a specialist consultant), it's important to understand how different the competencies are. First, a manager is not a super-engineer. Rarely are super-engineers good managers, and rarely are exceptional managers really good engineers. Second, we need to separate management from le…

>leadership scales effort, management extracts value

I love this take and have been saying something similar for a long time. A successful org needs both of these qualities to function well.

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#49

Post by ftkftk »

ryandrake wrote: post #21
erhserhdfd wrote: post #8

I agree with the majority of the other posters; internal is typically best. In my experience, usually how this plays out is: 1. Establish yourself has a high performing SSE. You need to build this reputation both on your direct team and department, but ideally across the org broadly. 2. Make it known you wish to become a manager at some point in the future. Have conversations with your direct manager, but also consid…

Definitely do #2! I bailed on a job where I did plenty of 1 and 3, but instead of actually saying I wanted to manage, I crossed my fingers, hoping that all the good work would be noticed and rewarded. Well as the team grew, I thought to myself, "yessss they're going to need a manager now and I've definitely been showing that I could do it for the last few years! I am certainly at the top of the consideration list!" W…

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky" -Michael Scott

If you want a leadership position the first step is to make it known to your manager. While a good manager (particularly in a growth company) will be constantly on the look out for potential new leaders, you can't wait around and just hope to be noticed.

Making your career objectives known to your manager allows them to have a conversation with you regarding your aspirations, their assessment of your skill set/aptitude (and how to flex/hone them), and what opportunities are available in the company. It will also allow you to determine whether a future is possible at the current company (is your manager supportive, dismissive??) or if you are better off finding a new position somewhere else.

Re: Ask HN: Senior Software Engineer to Engineering Manager

#50

Post by jka »

motohagiography wrote: post #27
nartz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree with some of this. There is a need to define what 'management' actually 'is'. Great 'managers' are leaders imho. The difference being, that they help inspire and motivate a team, and help contribute to vision, direction, and clarity which a team can rally around, while encouraging collaboration and excellence, and setting clear and ambitious expectations. Great ICs actually have a huge advantage here, becaus…

Toward expanding the explanation, this is why I separated them. Leadership is neither sufficient or necessary for managers - as evidenced by the survival of every large organization. Management skill is neither sufficient or necessary for leadership, because leadership is less a thing than it is just the effect of being followed. I'm a big advocate of the necessity of charisma and inspiration, but crappy managers oft…

I don't have much to add to the conversation here, but an upvote doesn't seem to suffice in order to indicate that your separation of leadership and management into two separate (and potentially overlapping) qualities feels like a really useful one, thank you.
Post reply on HN