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Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

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Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#41
It really depends on where you’re based and what level of trust you have in the manager. In some countries a company will go quite far to keep their employees - it’s expensive to both hire and then train new ones. In others, the manager gets measured just as much and he needs his bonus (or simply just his salary) as much as you do.

Either way, there isn’t much you can do if the burnout is real, other than being honest. Explain why you’re feeling burned out, perhaps even come up with suggestions to how it potentially could be mitigated. A good manager will try to accommodate you in some way. If they’ve been with the company for a long time, they might even have experience with dealing with burned out staff or have the option to shuffle some tasks around to give a tiny bit of variety. If he can’t and just lets you go, then the deadline just moved - if you were burning out, it would eventually have come to this anyway. Hard to hear, harder to experience but nothing to do but look for something new with more meat on it :)

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#42
When this happened to me I decided to just tell my manager the truth. He honestly didn't even realize I was having issues and he reacted to it by firing me. Mentally, I was in a place where I was kind of happy that my suffering can finally end. On the other hand, if I had just kept my mouth shut I could've probably zombied my way through for a lot longer.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#43

> Just wanted to check in It sounds like you already know this is a firing email. The best thing is to reset your career. Graduate school is a very good way to do this. Get some wins, it will pep you up. > how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that? Getting fired sucks dude.

That's a pretty huge leap. I'll regularly send check-in messages like this to my employees, both if their work does appear to be suffering, but also just literally to check in and get up to speed on where their focus is. And even in cases where work is suffering, my hope is very much to be able to resolve the issue! Getting fired does suck, but firing people also sucks. Not as much, certainly, but it's not like it's something you'd choose to do when there are alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#44
From a manager's point of view: This person just wants to know what you're up to. It's not a judgement, it's a simple query. It can be solved via additional communication. Probably best to do on the phone so there's no confusion but email works also.

> how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that?

Actually, once you've established that you're capable you can usually ask for assignments / work that interests you more. This also requires additional communication. Even if there's nothing immediately available, your manager will keep it in mind when looking forward to the kinds of work you express interest in.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#45
post #42

When this happened to me I decided to just tell my manager the truth. He honestly didn't even realize I was having issues and he reacted to it by firing me. Mentally, I was in a place where I was kind of happy that my suffering can finally end. On the other hand, if I had just kept my mouth shut I could've probably zombied my way through for a lot longer.

Just a heads up to anyone reading this and feeling like they can't speak to their manager when they're having issues with burnout or stress: not all managers will react the way parent's did, and depending on where you live (pretty much any first-world country outside the US?) it may be outright illegal to fire you like that.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#46
I've quit and failed out of many jobs and I've also been a manager multiple times of medium-sized teams in highly demanding environments.

I've been on both sides of the table.

My advice isn't orthodox, but it's real.

The first question is, is your manager some kind of psychopath? If they are then just quit and move on. It's painful. Maybe it will work out so you should stay. They're really nice underneath... all that stuff. No. Just quit. It won't get better. They won't change. They won't suddenly care about you. You're done. Move on.

If they aren't a psychopath then just level with them. Be completely honest that you're burning out right now and you need a break, or a different role, or you don't know and you need help. They will either fire you immediately and you can move on, or they'll figure out a way to help you. From a managers point of view this is fantastic - a report is telling you what they need, or they need help. The worst employees are the ones that are just a continual problem. If you flag that you're a short-term problem, or a solvable problem or a problem that needs help this is 1,000x better than someone who's a problem every day.

A good manager is a human being. They truly want to help. They'll ignore or figure out a way around the corporate stuff. If they aren't a human being, just move on. If you are a continual problem, don't be mad if they move on from you.

Most managers, I think, have only had two types of people with "performance problems". Type 1: A real problem. Your cat died. Your parent died. You broke a leg. Your car crashed. You just don't like your role. All of these are ok. We're all human. Your human manager will support you through it and figure out leave or a new role or whatever else is required.

Then there's type 2: You stop coming in. It's not clear what's going on. You don't talk. Different problems every week - your ankle hurts then your dog got bitten by a snake. Then something else and then something else. Then something else. It's endless.

Managers... we just don't really know what to do. There's no clear problem. We try things to help you. We try more things. And more. And more. Then it's six months later and we're burnt out and we fire you. But we don't want to. We're still human. We've been there too.

So help everyone, be clear and up front. If your manager is kind they'll figure it out. If they're not then you're better off moving on.

The medium is also everything. Talk in person, talk over email, talk over chat. Make a phone call. Video. You don't know how people like to communicate. It's easy to take things out of context. Try to connect as much as you can.

But don't be afraid. Just level and see what happens. It might be messy and painful like any human interaction but at least you'll work through it.

Again - yes, there are psychopath managers. They're not confined to fast food restaurants. The sooner you figure out you have a psycho manager, the better. Just move on and pray for them, in the best way. Truly pray for them to be better because you should be grateful you don't live in the personal hell they seem to.

........

on this:

"Hey X, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing N things from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing ___. If there's anything I can help with please let me know."

They're trying to connect with you and balance the corporate written communication balancing act. Be kind. Video call. Chat in person. Find a way to connect and be honest about what's going on and if they're a good person they will help, and if they're not a good person, leave.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#47
post #42

When this happened to me I decided to just tell my manager the truth. He honestly didn't even realize I was having issues and he reacted to it by firing me. Mentally, I was in a place where I was kind of happy that my suffering can finally end. On the other hand, if I had just kept my mouth shut I could've probably zombied my way through for a lot longer.

Just a heads up to anyone reading this and feeling like they can't speak to their manager when they're having issues with burnout or stress: not all managers will react the way parent's did, and depending on where you live (pretty much any first-world country outside the US?) it may be outright illegal to fire you like that.

I didn't get fired on the spot or anything. He put me on a PIP (performance improvement plan). If you fail that then they use it as the paper trail to fire you.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#48
post #15

Please don't assume the question is "disingenuous." It's an invitation to talk about what's going on, and bring the manager into the loop. Most managers really do want to help! More concerning to me is the "I always lose my job or quit." It sounds a lot like you're running into a pattern in your life which causes you to underperform. If it's emotional or mental, please consider seeking counseling. Brain chemistry can…

Not just brain stuff, I’m a walking example of weird hormone issues screwing up my ability to work well

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#49

Would a vacation help?

Yes, from the employer point of view, this is why vacations exist. A vacation would have helped to avoid this. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. The OP situation looks like burn-out. If someone has reached actual burn-out, a mere 2 weeks isn't going to be enough. I think a lot of people are going through this now working without boundaries and no real vacation, it leads to really bad outcomes. Burn-out is serious.

Do you have any good suggestions for people suffering from burnout. Once they get beyond the "a few weeks off will fix this" starting stages of burnout.
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