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Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

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Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#41

Post by scruffyherder »

jblake wrote: post #19
fallingknife wrote: post #6

You have to talk to a lawyer. No one other than a IP attorney experienced in dealing with patent trolls will be able to give you accurate advice on this. Also you should add "[ask HN]" to the beginning of your post. edit: A good way to find a lawyer is to talk to good lawyers you have worked with in the past. They will not be able to help you themself if they practice in a different area, but will likely have referra…

I've never worked with a lawyer before. How do I pick one? Should I pick one in my state - Nevada? Should I post the case details here? I guess I was hoping someone on HN had a connection or is an IP lawyer themself, as I have no idea how to pick a lawyer and no idea how much this could cost.

First challenge on any and all lawsuits is diversity. Since you are the one being sued it better be Nevada, otherwise your lawyer will answer with a diversity challenge saying you don’t do business where it was filed and ask for the case to be moved.

Get ready for so many continuances and discovery requests. Do not delete anything, purposeful deletions can be taken as an admission of guilt.

But I’m clearly not your lawyer or a lawyer just someone who has been sued.

They always want to settle for precedent. Prior art is a harder thing than it should be, but you better find out everyone else they sued and make contact, assuming they aren’t gagged.

Sadly courts don’t slammed down enough people as vexatious litigants, so here we are.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#42

Post by reasonabl_human »

mchusma wrote: post #17
ryantgtg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is one of the options. They can also represent themselves, or hire a lawyer. What else could they also do? Run away to another country maybe?

To clarify, in some jurisdictions in the US, businesses cannot represent themselves. Which is a travesty for companies like this guy, who doesn't even have that as an option. I don't actually know about patent law, I just have had an experience with a frivolous lawsuit for a low-ish dollar amount that it would cost more to defend than lose. Because we couldn't represent ourselves, we just had to let it go to default…

What jurisdictions include such restrictions? Just curious, have never heard of this.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#43

Post by fallingknife »

stinos wrote: post #16
fallingknife wrote: post #6

You have to talk to a lawyer. No one other than a IP attorney experienced in dealing with patent trolls will be able to give you accurate advice on this. Also you should add "[ask HN]" to the beginning of your post. edit: A good way to find a lawyer is to talk to good lawyers you have worked with in the past. They will not be able to help you themself if they practice in a different area, but will likely have referra…

A good way to find a lawyer is to talk to good lawyers you have worked with in the past. I.e. none for me. Is it that common to have worked with lawyers then? I honestly wouldn't know how to find a good lawyer. I don't even think I know anyone in person who ever needed a lawyer (not sure - it's not something which comes up often in conversations).

It's pretty common for someone doing business in the US. Do you have any friends from school who are lawyers? That could be a good start. Or someone else you know who has been involved in litigation. A Google search for IP lawyers in your area couldn't hurt either. You can usually get a little bit of free advice over the phone too.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#44

Post by Andrew_Russell »

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance), and I know that others have as well.

There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place to start.

I'm also happy to talk it through with you if you'd like more specific information - my contact information is here: https://shawkeller.com/attorneys/andrew-e-russell/

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#45

Post by Tpsoc »

berdon wrote: post #35
bombcar wrote: post #22

You may want to reach out to some of your competitors and try to find the lawyers they used (especially the dismissed ones). If there are any court records they may show this.

I second this thought. Everyone hates patent trolls and it's very possible some of these companies might relish another opportunity to force this one to "lose".

Or depending on the industry, your competitors might be happy to see one less competitor.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#46

Post by simongr3dal »

Sorry to hear, I just checked out the site in your profile and it looks like a great product.

Consensus seems to be to contact a lawyer, and even if the EFF can't help you directly maybe they can get you in contact with the right kind of lawyer. Hope you find someone who can help you out.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#47

Post by kkielhofner »

jblake wrote: post #26
nceqs3 wrote: post #7

You could always settle. How much are they asking for? Could you share the patent # they are trying to use?

The case details does not detail an asking amount. I could post the case details here if people think that's a good idea. I suppose it's public information anyway.

DO NOT do this. You probably also should have used a throwaway account and provided a lot less detail on the scenario. If your adversary finds this post (they likely will) your position and options are at a significant disadvantage.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#48

Post by diffstrokes »

jblake wrote: post #19
fallingknife wrote: post #6

You have to talk to a lawyer. No one other than a IP attorney experienced in dealing with patent trolls will be able to give you accurate advice on this. Also you should add "[ask HN]" to the beginning of your post. edit: A good way to find a lawyer is to talk to good lawyers you have worked with in the past. They will not be able to help you themself if they practice in a different area, but will likely have referra…

I've never worked with a lawyer before. How do I pick one? Should I pick one in my state - Nevada? Should I post the case details here? I guess I was hoping someone on HN had a connection or is an IP lawyer themself, as I have no idea how to pick a lawyer and no idea how much this could cost.

I work with a firm that has IP lawyers, they are mediocre and very expensive. I recommend calling local private practice IP lawyers and briefly describe your situation and ask for a 2 hour consult. Speak with as many as possible and hire the one who seems the most helpful.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#49

Post by whimsicalism »

wyager wrote: post #31
relaunched wrote: post #9

Talk to a lawyer. But, here's some things to know - 1) Willful infringement is worse than infringing. 2) Patent trolls are trying to earn money - some money is better than no money. 3) In most legal scenarios, you want to get out of the conflict as cheaply as possible - vindication is very expensive.

> vindication is very expensive While true, this is unfortunate, because it means that patent trolls continue to get away with this behavior. I think society today is insufficiently aggressive and vengeful. The social utility of vengefulness is precisely that it allows for n-tit-for-tat strategies to punish social defectors like patent trolls.

> I think society today is insufficiently aggressive and vengeful.

Sure, the society with one of the largest per capita prison populations in the world is insufficiently vengeful.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#50

Post by esens »

As someone who has dealt with this I suggest you figure out a way to avoid the patent. Read through the claims, figure out what combination of features they have patented and then change your product to avoid those features in that combination.

You likely can either do something more advanced or something less advanced -- if you have the choice do the more advanced solution as you are then likely pushing your product even further.

Fighting patents is for rich, established companies. You do not have the luxury.

You should change your product immediately to avoid infringement, or even close to infringing. If you do this you can avoid damages/claims against you.

Because you didn't know you were possibly infringing, you can avoid all claims/damages by immediately changing your product.

When you respond to them, you should say you didn't realize you were possibly infringing as you were not aware of the patent, you should say that you do not believe you were infringing, but anyhow you have modified your product to clear up any possibility of claims of infringement going forward.

You do not want to admit any guilt in anyway (actually the rule is NEVER admit guilt, always claim you believe you are not infringing), and you want to get away from these people because they are not worth your time.

But if you do need to use this tech, you should try to license it, but while claiming you are not infringing and there are alternative methods you can adapt. This gives you the most powerful stance. Make sure they understand you are very small and thus not worth dragging this out. Offer them something for a one time fee if possible and get than done and move on.

But avoiding the perception of infringing going forward is best.

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