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Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

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Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#41

Not completely on topic, but I fear we're rapidly losing many video games of yesteryear to time and their closed-source nature. Luckily, milestone games like Doom and Quake were open sourced some time ago. There's reverse engineering of some codebases like Rollercoaster Tycoon, Diablo, and Super Mario 64, but for 99% of games we'll never see them outside of the original release or an emulator.

I learned programming mostly from reverse engineering open source games. Would be great to see this happen more.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For about 10 years I had a consultancy that in the latter half focused on B2B. One of the biggest qualifier pitfalls was thinking we could replace Excel with anything else. There are a myriad of reasons this fails to work. I swear some of them are near voodoo. Google Sheets is a fit in some situations but the real facts are that Excel is amazing and when someone has been running core biz logic on it for a long time;…

I know what that voodoo may be. Of the many failed "replace Excel" projects I've seen in the investment banking \ hedge fund world over 20 years, the usual mistake is that the focus was on the specific Excel model itself and not the generic building capabilities that Excel provides. An Excel model, i.e., the specific map from inputs to outputs, is typically fairly easy to replace with another tool. But what you've do…

You summed it up perfectly. Jobs I successfully finished after a few bites of tragically not understanding involved working closely with the Excel department and making sure they could function as usual but extracting data to go into the systems and providing a net gain for those people.

At the end of the day, the people that do the magic that keeps everyones job paying aren't always (or nearly never are) the people that make the contract hire decisions. If you can give those people a tool that lets them 2x their work and be excited about it there's a big net win. If you want them to move to a statically modeled web interface with dynamic tables and they lose all their ability to do everything they know in Excel, everyone loses.

Portability and timing is key if you have to take on that sort of gig. Team buy in might be worth more than that. Never take somebodies sewing machine if you still want that biz to make enough money to pay you.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what that voodoo may be. Of the many failed "replace Excel" projects I've seen in the investment banking \ hedge fund world over 20 years, the usual mistake is that the focus was on the specific Excel model itself and not the generic building capabilities that Excel provides. An Excel model, i.e., the specific map from inputs to outputs, is typically fairly easy to replace with another tool. But what you've do…

You summed it up perfectly. Jobs I successfully finished after a few bites of tragically not understanding involved working closely with the Excel department and making sure they could function as usual but extracting data to go into the systems and providing a net gain for those people. At the end of the day, the people that do the magic that keeps everyones job paying aren't always (or nearly never are) the people…

Agree. If you're selective about which bits and pieces you move away from Excel, and not religious about getting rid of Excel entirely, you can often have a great result.

What trips people up is that Excel models can be deceptively inviting of replacement ideas. They may have many workflows within them that are obviously much easier to accomplish with a different tool. E.g., grouping and applying aggregate functions; filtering; joining; filling missing data, especially with constraints such as filling forward EPS estimates but only into the same fiscal quarter; etc. You could look at an ocean of INDEX(,MATCH(...)) functions in Excel and discover that the same manipulation in Pandas would require just two lines of code. But it is easy to overlook the importance of seemingly simple calculation flows, in the same model, that are uniquely suited for being expressed in Excel, the universal language for describing calculations.

For example, I have seen data analysts move from Excel to Python, replacing their models as they go -- after being wowed by Pandas' data manipulation capabilities -- and then get bogged down for months trying to recreate what Excel's =RTD("BLOOMBERG.RTD","",...) already did for them. And when the portfolio manager tells them, "this number looks wrong", which happens often, they spend half a day dumping data into Excel and building a sheet that's illustrative for the PM.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#44
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You summed it up perfectly. Jobs I successfully finished after a few bites of tragically not understanding involved working closely with the Excel department and making sure they could function as usual but extracting data to go into the systems and providing a net gain for those people. At the end of the day, the people that do the magic that keeps everyones job paying aren't always (or nearly never are) the people…

Agree. If you're selective about which bits and pieces you move away from Excel, and not religious about getting rid of Excel entirely, you can often have a great result. What trips people up is that Excel models can be deceptively inviting of replacement ideas. They may have many workflows within them that are obviously much easier to accomplish with a different tool. E.g., grouping and applying aggregate functions;…

>Excel models can be deceptively inviting of replacement ideas.

In my mind that's actually what is the root at any talk of "Why isn't there an open source alternative for X amazing program?"

As a wiser person than me once said, "It's easy to imagine so I imagine it's easy." Deceptively simple operations in things that have a long legacy of supremacy can just be near impossible to clone even if you can churn out a POC that looks reasonable in 20 minutes. That trap is a big hill a lot of us die on. At one point in my life I swore off ever doing ETL, and now I do it for a living. Seems like that's actually the world now. Sheesh. With MS embracing Python for big data, maybe the next big thing is just what it's always been... Excel.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#45
post #7

Excel alternatives might be uncountable. Implementing spreadsheet basics is an advanced beginner exercise. But even Google’s billions only get it a distant second best because Microsoft is still working hard despite the lead. Sure Google and Apple can meet most needs most of the time. They’re good enough mainly because they are free beer. Not because they are open source. Obviously. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a GNU fanb…

I'm not an Excel user. Genuinely curious: Is it really that the alternatives are worse, lacking features, unstable, or does it come down to "they're not Excel", in that they're not a drop in replacement that can perfectly load and run every Excel sheet ever created. Because that would be my gut feeling: Not interoperable enough, since some things just work differently, but not necessarily much worse. If you can't sen…

One problem with sheets is that its external. Most companies I've worked for prohibit use of external drives/email/apps.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#46
post #7

Excel alternatives might be uncountable. Implementing spreadsheet basics is an advanced beginner exercise. But even Google’s billions only get it a distant second best because Microsoft is still working hard despite the lead. Sure Google and Apple can meet most needs most of the time. They’re good enough mainly because they are free beer. Not because they are open source. Obviously. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a GNU fanb…

For about 10 years I had a consultancy that in the latter half focused on B2B. One of the biggest qualifier pitfalls was thinking we could replace Excel with anything else. There are a myriad of reasons this fails to work. I swear some of them are near voodoo. Google Sheets is a fit in some situations but the real facts are that Excel is amazing and when someone has been running core biz logic on it for a long time;…

We converted our excel wiz to do R. She will never return to excel for advanced stuff. The simple stuff could be done with lobte office (except for excel sheets that come from outside).

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#47
Open-source data storage is full of gaps compared to its commercial/bespoke brethren. To give just one example, consider multi-tenancy/QoS. Very few OSS distributed filesystems or object stores even seem to have heard of the concept, and those few barely scratch the surface.

Re: Ask HN: Which project does not have any good open-source alternatives?

#50
Exchange. Imap and friends don't provide the seamless functionality that Exchange does. Contacts, calendar, permission sharing, group message folders. You just can't get close. I love OSS, but I have to recommend Exchange because their is no viable alternative.
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