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Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

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Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#41

Post by detaro »

userbinator wrote: post #31
hos234 wrote: post #3

It used to be an option in Firefox. You have to go dig around bugzilla to find the reasons they removed it - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1249151 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606655

...and this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570366#c1 "This option isn't supported, last I checked" What a reason. They decided to remove it because it "isn't supported"? So much for "open source" being better at "do what users want"... if you personally don't need that option, fine, don't use it. But don't go taking away things that a lot of others want. I get extremely angry whenever I see discussions…

I feel like this is an unfair representation of that comment.

If the actual backend doesn't support that option, it's indeed a problem that the UI offers it, especially if it's causing a bug. The question if it should be supported is unrelated to that, and not really a topic for that unrelated issue. I've certainly had my own bad experiences with Firefox issues, but that's not a good example.

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#42

Post by fitzroy »

SyneRyder wrote: post #36
fitzroy wrote: post #32

Instead of asking for each site, just allow first-party cookies and delete them by default when the last tab of that domain is closed. The user should be able to favorite cookies to keep indefinitely, with the rest being cleared on a user-defined schedule (onTabClose, 1 hour, 24 hours, 1 week, etc). There was a free Safari extension called Safari Cookies that handled the favoriting but it stopped working several year…

Microsoft Edge Beta has this. In Settings -> Site Permissions, you can disable "Allow sites to save cookies", but then add individual websites to the Allow list. There is also a Clear On Exit list you can add sites to. I'm pretty sure Firefox & Chrome have similar functionality.

Thanks, just found it here in Chrome: chrome://settings/content/cookies

I've mostly switched back to Safari ...so I look forward to getting this option in a decade or so.

In all seriousness, this would naturally fit into the new Safari "Websites" permissions in Settings. Right now cookies, databases, HSTS policy, and local storage are still in the old "Manage Website Data..." window, which would seem redundant now.

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#43

Post by raverbashing »

Nextgrid wrote: post #13

The GDPR consent prompts are less about technicalities (are you using cookies or local storage) and more about giving the side permission to stalk you no matter what method they use. The real problem here is the lack of enforcement of the regulations. The majority of GDPR consent prompts are obnoxious because they aren't actually compliant - compliant ones are much more pleasant. See this comment I just posted on ano…

This is the right answer. I think the popups come mostly from a) an American interpretation of an European law and b) as a way to spite the users while "trying" to do the bare minimum to comply with the letter of the law (which might not be accepted as compliance)

And none of this farce would be needed if sites wouldn't track individual users. Showing ads don't require tracking individual users (and retargeting is frankly BS)

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#44

Post by yunruse »

fitzroy wrote: post #32

Instead of asking for each site, just allow first-party cookies and delete them by default when the last tab of that domain is closed. The user should be able to favorite cookies to keep indefinitely, with the rest being cleared on a user-defined schedule (onTabClose, 1 hour, 24 hours, 1 week, etc). There was a free Safari extension called Safari Cookies that handled the favoriting but it stopped working several year…

I like this idea, but many users would find it equally annoying to have to manage this. A machine-learning software which tracks usage would be more welcomed, backed up by favourite status / use of password managers to make a good heuristic.

Just so long as the ML algorithm is open source and entirely personal – having a company decide which cookie is good would be easily abusable.

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#46

Post by Buge »

tinus_hn wrote: post #10

Do you really want 120 questions for each site you open?

It could be better than the current situation. It could give a single popup when you visit a site, and you would click yes/no and it would remember that forever. You would never get a popup for that site again.

With the current situation, there often isn't even a no button! You're required to click yes. And then if you ever clear your cookies, it pops up the box another time.

Additionally people who don't like the popup can simply go into their browser settings and say allow for all sites.

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#47

Post by oliwarner »

Storing data in a cookie is not the dangerous bit, it's the intent, the what you're storing that data for which matters.

A browser popping up a prompt saying "google.com wants to store a cookie, is that okay?" isn't enough.

The design of these cookie and enhanced data protection laws is that websites need to spell out their intent. To tell people what data they're storing any why. Yes, you could code that into headers and have the browser relay that information, but that's the stalemate we're in.

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#48

Post by wronex »

How about Firefox Temporary Containers?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/temporary-con...

I think they compartmentalize each tap until it is closed. Dunno if it only clears cookies or all other forms of storage.

Cookies get all the bad press when there is many other ways to store data. Or does the word "cookie" encompass all forms of persistent storage?

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#49

Post by simpss »

GDPR does not require "cookie consents forms" and neither do the EU e-privacy rules. There are clear exemptions for authentication and other technical cookies.

Basically, the form is only required if you're doing something nastier, like tracking.

I've never understood why sites just run with the concept and implement the "permission form" when it really isn't required for good actors.

https://wikis.ec.europa.eu/display/WEBGUIDE/04.+Cookies#sect...

ps: for firefox I use "cookie autodelete" extension https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autode...

Re: Ask HN: Shouldn't web browsers ask us before storing cookies?

#50

Post by jakemor »

neilobremski wrote: post #16

I agree that "this law is hurting the web" but I don't see how shifting that from the website to the application is going to solve the root issue. Prompts like these are annoying speed bumps that I have a hard time believing are in anyway effective -- paranoid people already deeply evaluate the software and services they use whereas the casual user is likely to just to "yah yah, get this out of my face" click it.

If you tell the website “no don’t track me” it can’t even remember not to track you (because doing so would be tracking you!) so they have to ask every time.

If you tell the browser no, it would just block the site from storing any info in the browser. It would ask you once only the first time you visit a site, and you can change it whenever in the toolbar. Problem solved, no?

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