You can join any "IT-Genossenschaft" like [0] or [1], which legally saves you from falling into the "Scheinselbstständigkeit" category. One-time cost is about 100-200€.
Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
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Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#42I did this for a few years. Here are your options: Employment by the US company: They're allowed to employ you and have you "stationed" in Germany. You pay no US tax, and DE tax on 100% of this income. For Sozialversicherung, Rentenversicherung etc it's just as if you were selbständig. Since you're allowed to give up all sorts of rights in DE conteact Law, the US based contract is probably fine. Contractor for the US…
> since I dont have a degree in CS, I can't be selbständig in that field Wtf? Is there a rationale for this rule or is it just German's super weird "degrees are everything" culture turned to law? (I'm Dutch, were basically Germans who talk funny, but I'm very happy we don't have rules like these)
Well, he mixed up "selbstständig" (self employed) and "Freiberuf" (a specific tax setup for specific kinds of occupations). Unlike in many other professions he _can_ be "selbstständig" in the CS field without a degree, and he can create a GmbH w/o any special qualification. Which is pretty unusual in Germany :-)
It is very different in many other professions. So yes, you actually have to be an electrician with extra qualifications to be able (allowed) to setup an electrician shop (called a "Meister" ("master") but it is entirely different to the university master degree). This is even true for seemingly low profile stuff like haircutters, or painting shops!
And the rational should be obvious: You don't want to allow people to run a business which don't know how to write a basic invoice and you don't want an electrician who doesn't know how to properly install electric lines.
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#43One way to set this up is using some form of consulting/temporary worker company as an intermediate. I was employed in that form for a while. So legally that company hires you and then invoices the U.S. corporation taking a cut. In my case that was Kelly Services and was hassle free (I got my salary as negotiated in time, only interaction I had with them was signing a contract and terminating it) no idea how hard this is to setup or what the cut is they take.
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#44You can join any "IT-Genossenschaft" like [0] or [1], which legally saves you from falling into the "Scheinselbstständigkeit" category. One-time cost is about 100-200€. [0] https://www.4freelance.de/ [1] https://www.it-projekt-eg.de/
That's interesting. Could you expand it a bit or point to some English articles about it? After joining can you work with your own client and not share the client with the rest of the cooperative?
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
It‘s very bureaucratic starting a company here. You will need much time.
Costly too. German tax law is complicated and it will cost quite a lot of money to get all the filings done correctly.
Yes, I think it is at least 2-3k€ per year even for an empty GmbH.
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#46Is it really that expensive to set up a company in Germany ?
The problem is that if you have a single client, the government may claim that you are trying to avoid tax and other obligations --- that you have a fake company.
Couldn't I just pay all of that stuff by my own to show them I have no intention to do so? I want everything to be legal. I do not want to save any money in taxes, health insurance or social insurance. I am actually happy to pay all this. Nevertheless I heard horror stories even by doing so you are at risk they will f..k you anyway after a Prüfung (audit) within the first five years or so.
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#47Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#48Just use a Gewerbe and make sure you issue a few invoices to other clients. I have done that for years and never had any problems.
I don't have and I don't want to have any other clients.
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#49https://bluemarblepayroll.com/about/ might be able to help? needs your employer to set this up tho
Thanks, will have a look :)
Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?
#50Either make your own UG or use individual W8 form for US company (reverse charge in DE, no VAT). Still, you need to have at last 20% of your income from another source if you stay a freelancer. Ideally if the US company had two legal entities and you could issue invoices to both. Most people start their own GmbH with all the increased taxes it brings.
Wouldn't that still be a grey zone to just invoice two different legal entities even though they are technically the same?