This is awful. I didn't know people felt or did things like this rather than focus on the level and quality of their own work.
Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#42I have a variety of ways to analyse this: 0) Remember that social media and the press shows the best parts of people's lives and rarely the crappy parts that everyone has. 1) You can't have it all. Often people sacrifice other parts of their lives to achieve in one area. My old boss that got promoted to a very high position never found a partner or children. Other tech friends who have earned a lot have worked thier…
2) Some people have advantages. Eg Bill Gates was a millionaire before he ever finished college, many famous people had privileged upbringings. Bill Gates was a billioniare multiple times over before he finished college, considering that he never received a degree. Harvard did grant him an honorary law degree in 2007, but not before he acquired his wealth.
agreed. changed it to was a millionaire before he started college
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#43I’ve gotten this many times from coworkers through the years. I’ve had people target me at all costs. They would try to grow their careers at my expense. It hurt and in the wrong company worked for them. But in the long arc of time it only got them so far and they all left the company before me. But none of them knew my resume and I ultimately moved to much better pastures.
You don’t know what those newer hires have on their resumes nor the conditions under which they were hired. You’re also not likely to make any good impressions for yourself by being identified as a threat or confrontational. Good management doesn’t like that behavior (edit-outside of professions like law, politics, sales/marketing, etc).
Read “Siddhartha“ by Hermann Hesse. Take a deliberate approach to managing your emotions. Mediate. Remember that the world is bigger than one persons seemingly great career - both yours and others careers.
Corporate America has all of this as negative side effects. How you react is your choice. Maybe take the opportunity to reevaluate what you should be learning or working towards to advance your own career. Look for things you can add to your resume. Consider options that make this one particular situation not your only source of money, professional respect and growth, or so on.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#44The smooth talkers are usually poor doers. My experience with such people says that those who are good at PR are rarely deep experts and cannot be counted on to participate productively in a commercial enterprise. Don’t waste your time on these people: they’ve chosen an easier path, one built on social skills rather than solid technical expertise. There’s no shame in focusing on your work and on sharpening your own skill set. After all, that’s what makes you successful in your work. All else is extraneous.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#45Humans always think we are in a race track competing with others. Imagine I'm running alone and I get to decide the speed & destination. Sounds philosophical, but always helped me.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#46I am 36, my job title is a Lead Developer (I made it despite fucking up all of my late teens and the entirety of my 20s), and I have been outclassed in some respects by people in their 20s, and I am at peace with this.
You know there is some aspect of jealousy going on here, and being so self-aware in that way is really important and you're half the way there already! So any time you feel that you want to tear apart someone's ideas or someone's code or whatever else, that might just be the jealousy talking. While there's a lot to be said for being an old motherfucker (by tech standards) and lessons that you can teach others, just always use that as a damper on yourself.
Perhaps a good antidote to that mindset is to refocus. Tell people what they are doing right. Look for little moments of genius when you see them. Actively look for things that are done right, and be sure to let the person in question know what they did right! Building people up will make you feel good, and it will definitely feel a lot better than professional jealousy.
I hope this is helpful in some way.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#47I think there's a process everyone has to go through in life of working out what truly makes them happy. When you're in your early 20s everyone has similar goals - you're going to be a goddamn giant success, no matter what your field is. As the years go on you realise that's not going to happen and you have to re-evaluate. It's not always easy. For me personally, I know I do good work. I know my coworkers can rely on…
FWIW no one aspires to be Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman, we all wanna Be Like Mike.
But Pippen had the most rebounds and Rodman the most assists during that time. That’s what made the team win, you want to win as a team and there is no I in team. Then you retire from engineering, never making the next Facebook or revolutionary Operating System, instead going onto lead the next generation stars to the promised land even though you were never an individual superstar during your career (see Steve Kerr for reference).
Update: also Rodman talked Kim Il down from nuclear disaster, so there is plenty of opportunity to stay relevant as your career progresses
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#48Thanks for posting this question and to those who answered with advice. This is something I've been struggling with recently, despite others probably facing the same envy when looking at my life.
I decided to compile some of my favourite learnings from this thread:
1) Jealousy comes from a scarcity mindset. Use this as awareness and fuel to improve.
2) Never compare yourself to someone across a single domain. Things must be analyzed in the context of their lives, including what they've chosen to give up.
3) Outward success != happiness. This is particularly important in the age of social media, when people post the best 10% of their lives. Consistent happiness > sporadic highs.
4) Assess whether you'd actually want to do what that person does, not just be perceived as they are.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#49There are two components here. The obvious one is the hurt ego which can lead to the sentiments you mention. The less obvious is understanding that you can only control your own destiny.
On the second, suggest trying to figure out what skill(s) the other person has that enabled them to achieve that which you are surprised (it didn't just happen by magic). Is it technical? Personal interaction? Networking? Then consider if that may be something you can/should work to improve.
On the ego issue - There was a point in my life when I was a very angry person, apt to bitterness and tirades. I strongly encourage reading a book or two on chan/zen. You need not become a buddhist to benefit from their philosophical teachings and you don't need to meditate every day. But I do think you can become small 'e' enlightened and really improve how you view and interact with others and the ups and downs of daily life.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#50I think this is pretty natural / universal. There’s a lot of “ways” to deal with the emotions you’re feeling (“seethe”), for me the important inflection point was realizing that what was driving that was internal conflict between where I wanted to go & how I was going to get there. So looking more inward and less outward was key, and filtering out all of that “noise” to focus on tangibly making myself better was key.
Here’s where it gets more fun — that process made me realize that where I “wanted to be” was not where I wanted to be. And this post was fun to read because I reflected on how far off I am from when I felt the same way, and yet I’ve achieved different successes than I had imagined, experienced different failures than I had dreaded. It’s a wild ride; take time to reflect, work to improve yourself and set goals, but balance it with enjoyment of the ride.