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Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

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Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#41

Post by [deleted] »

gte910h wrote: post #20
andrewvc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ROR is NOT for those who are willing to just get it done . What does that even mean? I work full time as a Rails developer, and I'd love to give a counterpoint to your obvious distate for Rails, but I have no idea what you're even trying to say....

Okay, let me give you the real live example. I build integrated products (mobile app which talks to a few web apps and maybe a desktop app in there too). I'm not a web developer sitting there making a site a human uses a great deal of the time. You're 9.5 weeks into a 10 week project. Some changes need to be made to a view cause a race condition was found in a load in the client application that talks to your framewo…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#42

Post by andrewvc »

gte910h wrote: post #20
andrewvc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ROR is NOT for those who are willing to just get it done . What does that even mean? I work full time as a Rails developer, and I'd love to give a counterpoint to your obvious distate for Rails, but I have no idea what you're even trying to say....

Okay, let me give you the real live example. I build integrated products (mobile app which talks to a few web apps and maybe a desktop app in there too). I'm not a web developer sitting there making a site a human uses a great deal of the time. You're 9.5 weeks into a 10 week project. Some changes need to be made to a view cause a race condition was found in a load in the client application that talks to your framewo…

Wow, I ask you for specifics, and you just write an even longer, yet just as content free post. This is HN, not a presentation to an idiot manager, we don't need bad truck analogies, just explain the thing itself.

I'm calling BS until you post some actual code, the closest thing to anything technical in that whole giant post of yours was you used the word 'view' once.

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#43

Post by gte910h »

danieldon wrote: post #36
patio11 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into Sinatra, entirely at Thomas' suggestion. My experience after coding up a toy web application was that, if I wanted to build a non-toy application, I'd end up building a half-complete, undocumented, poorly tested version of Rails 1.0 prior to actually being able to work on the stuff people pay me money for. It is a wonderful microframework if you want to either a) build a web framework because you want e…

Have you looked at Padrino? I recently experimented with it and was surprised that it was an extremely awesome middle ground, to the point where I'll probably use it for my next project. It's very fast, close to Rack and easy to use with Rack middleware, has Rails-style view helpers, has sinatra-style controllers, very simple and elegant mountable apps, a focus on DB agnosticism, among many other things

Question: Have you experience with it on heroku? Does it work well there? Any difference between its behavior and the "normal case" of RoR as far as what heroku is designed for to your knowledge?

(Like I've said, got nothing about ruby, just don't feel rails is a good fit for the stuff I do; something lighter weight like this could be a good substitue on heroku).

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#44

Post by gte910h »

danieldon wrote: post #37
gte910h wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when you do a django template "your way" or "they way we can do it in 2 hours instead of 12"? What happens with the same thing in a Rails project? People may dislike that you did it, but you still CAN . That's the difference. With Ruby on Rails, you can't necessarily due it without the wheels coming off. >I'd still go python over ruby, cause I'll take libraries This is a comment about the non-web compone…

What happens when you do a django template "your way" or "they way we can do it in 2 hours instead of 12"? I've worked on a lot of projects and can't imagine the situation where you'd have this kind of a variation in time to create two remotely similar versions of a template. If you are talking about a fully designed template + CSS + JS, then you could possibly get up to 12 hours, but there would be no way to shorten…

You're thinking web apps. Think "apps that have some views which are to the web, but most data feeds for other services" and you'll be in the zone were in. Json and Xml feeds and the like.

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#45

Post by gte910h »

danieldon wrote: post #37
gte910h wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when you do a django template "your way" or "they way we can do it in 2 hours instead of 12"? What happens with the same thing in a Rails project? People may dislike that you did it, but you still CAN . That's the difference. With Ruby on Rails, you can't necessarily due it without the wheels coming off. >I'd still go python over ruby, cause I'll take libraries This is a comment about the non-web compone…

What happens when you do a django template "your way" or "they way we can do it in 2 hours instead of 12"? I've worked on a lot of projects and can't imagine the situation where you'd have this kind of a variation in time to create two remotely similar versions of a template. If you are talking about a fully designed template + CSS + JS, then you could possibly get up to 12 hours, but there would be no way to shorten…

>Depends on what you mean by the software. The framework overall is very opinionated, even if you can use parts of it in a modular way.

Also, Django is WSGI. WSGI is very easy to add layers to to get the job done. (Side note, does everyone pronounce that Wizz Gee in your part of town? They sure as hell do in Atlanta and it slightly confuses me every time I hear it in conversation but can't figure out they're saying WSGI).

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#46

Post by gte910h »

cies wrote: post #16

(opinion warning) ruby is more nice to the programmer. python has more corporate backing. django is a pain-in-the-ass compared to rails, pylons is better but still not the collection of power tools that is rails. i feel the python community is tail chasing the ruby community now-a-days. catching up will be hard as the python language misses the "principle of least supprise" that is a guiding principle for ruby. pytho…

As a person who talks with people at corporations about stuff like this (heroku vs gae vs ec2 vs corporate data center is a huge discussion these days in the business community, even for non-consumer facing sites and backends to non-web projects):

They hate 2 features of rails in the conversations I've had: The fact rails devs seem unwilling to take shortcuts that Django/other python webdev guys will. They also hate "It is just broken", which seems to come out of rails guys in their experience more. Note these are entirely non-technical and come from a open ended menu.

Also, my particular town has a pretty large python community (we hosted pyCon in 2010 if you went, I wrote the initial bid).

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#47

Post by gte910h »

barnaby wrote: post #17
cies wrote: post #16

(opinion warning) ruby is more nice to the programmer. python has more corporate backing. django is a pain-in-the-ass compared to rails, pylons is better but still not the collection of power tools that is rails. i feel the python community is tail chasing the ruby community now-a-days. catching up will be hard as the python language misses the "principle of least supprise" that is a guiding principle for ruby. pytho…

:-) More people should use the opinion warning (Opinion warning) They're basically the same level of overall goodness. Django may be better at some things, Rails on others. The whole penis-size-measuring contest between both camps is kind of annoying actually. Having said that, I REALLY enjoy Django, a lot, and recommend it to everyone when they ask which of the two they should chose.

>(Opinion warning) They're basically the same level of overall goodness. Django may be better at some things, Rails on others.

You try to state that opinion around here, even clearly stating the stuff Rails is better at, but you get railed on when you say the stuff it ain't better at is why you prefer the other. See what happens.

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#48

Post by gte910h »

meric wrote: post #4
idontlikebacon wrote: post #2

I chose Django because I love working with Python, and it still can provide a lot of value without the framework. Django is also less cumbersome when you first build a project (a handful of files vs multiple directories and files form rails.) Django also provides a lot of useful stuff out of the box -- like an admin interface. Besides that, everything I've seen built in RoR can be built with Django, and vice-versa. T…

Seconded. It really comes down to whether you like Ruby or Python best.

>I chose Django because I love working with Python, and it still can provide a lot of value without the framework.

Ruby on Rails folks hate when you say that though, cause it makes the language half of their equation look less good. It feels like a "Oh No You're going off topic no fair". They should just say "Yup, python is better for that other stuff" not "But we're talking about webdev!". To me, it agains feels like a community thing. Rails community does stuff like that, Django people seem to care less if you like what they do too.

The fact my rails apps can't as easily control hardware, do math, or call C++ or Objective C code with minimal glue actually is a problem for some solutions I do. So I like python (my actual preferred solution right now is GAE, not Django, but that's more economics/scaling based than technical. To be honest my latest rails dalliance is because of the characteristics of heroku, not rails itself

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#49

Post by lukeinth »

I'm happy using Ruby and Python and have built sites with Rails and Django in the past. These days I mostly use Flask (sorta like Sinatra in Python) as its lightweight and has templates that don't drive me insane (sorry Django). For a large app with lots of models and mixed developers I would likely choose Rails.

Re: Ask HN: RubyOnRails or Django/Pylons?

#50

Post by orlandop »

pdelgallego wrote: post #39

Write this applications in both languages: - a url shortener. - a easy blog system. - a naive twitter. Pick whatever feels more natural to you. If you wet stuck in any of this applications, you can drop me a line, I will try to help you.

Thanks for the great suggestion, and unbiased answer. I think that is the path I'm going to take.
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