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Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

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Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#41

Post by corvallis »

imgabe wrote: post #13
auslegung wrote: post #5

It depends on what you mean by 'etc'. The problem might not be in a single leak, but with enough leaks people can get access to all kinds of PII (personally identifiable information). It's important to me that my physical address not leak, I don't want people or packages showing up that I didn't ask to show up. If your important numbers (in the US that's passport, social security, and driver license) get leaked, it b…

> It's important to me that my physical address not leak, I don't want people or packages showing up that I didn't ask to show up. What is the likelihood of being a target of this? Are there people out there that you expect might want to mail you an unexpected package or stalk you at your home? I get that there are people who have stalkers and such, but for the average, random person, what is the likelihood a crimina…

I worked in a prison facility for three years, where all the inmates knew my first and last name, which is unique (I'm probably the only person with my first/last name in the world). If you google me, you can find my entire immediate family, including home address, home worth, names, occupation, ages. Many of the inmates were able to observe my car make/model/license plate, my arrival and departure time to work, etc. Though I had good rapport with the inmates and believe I did right by them, I still have a nagging fear that a released inmate could track down a family member or show up at our home. These are not dumb people. In fact they are quite creative with plenty of street smarts.

I am not a unique/unusual/margin case.

Saying "there are some people who have stalkers and such" discounts large swaths of (mostly) women who have been victimized, far more than a non-victim would ever realize.

This is a very real concern for more than an insignificant number of people. We are just people who you would not necessarily realize exist.

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#42

Post by badestrand »

It is quite interesting that everyone is so alert about privacy now and hates Facebook and Google and just ten years ago people willingly published their address and phone number in a phone book for everyone to see. Also in Germany the cities sell every citizens' personal data and nobody cares. It is quite hipocritical.

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#43

Post by thg »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #34
dahart wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we should do is think about the post-privacy world, where all data is available to everyone. Either I don't fully understand what you're suggesting, or you don't fully understand what you're suggesting. ;) Right to privacy is part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for good reasons. Violations and abuses of privacy have done a lot of damage to a lot of people throughout history. So what does authenti…

I suggest that a right to privacy is a mistake. It shouldn't exist. Unsustainability: It will only become more difficult to keep secrets as technology improves. Imagine cameras that can see through walls and drones the size of a fly. Unenforceability: How do you make people forget information on demand? How do you delete data from the internet? Inefficiency: We waste a lot of resources securing data. We waste a lot o…

Bruce Schneier has written an essay on a few key points why privacy is essential: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/11/how_surveilla...

"If there is no privacy, there will be pressure to change. Some people will recognize that their morality isn't necessarily the morality of everyone­ -- and that that's okay. But others will start demanding legislative change, or using less legal and more violent means, to force others to match their idea of morality.

It's easy to imagine the more conservative (in the small-c sense, not in the sense of the named political party) among us getting enough power to make illegal what they would otherwise be forced to witness. In this way, privacy helps protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority."

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#44

Post by ivanmaeder »

warent wrote: post #32
maroonblazer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the likelihood of either of these happening? Neither of the links provide any data on incidence of ID theft leading to house stealing or being thrown in jail, which leads me to believe it's probably extremely low. Happy to be shown otherwise though.

It's non-zero. Does it matter by how much? Why increase your surface area of attack if it can be prevented?

Not to nitpick but I think it matters by how much the risk increases if you're trying to compare it to a potential benefit.

I'd also say that the risk doesn't begin at zero. E.g., businesses, employers, schools, other orgs, family, partners, friends, colleagues, etc already have a lot of our personal data, and however small the risk is, it's real and worth consideration.

We actually consider these risk/benefit scenarios all the time in everyday life. E.g.,

- We might surrender too much information when presented with the chance to win something in a draw; or give up some non-relevant personal information in a signup form just because the field is mandatory

- Amazon, Apple, etc keep our credit card numbers; Monzo, TransferWise, etc our bank account numbers—but we're happy with that because of the convenience (or because there's no other way to do business with them)

- You might have personal documentation saved on iCloud, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc because you want easy access to it; similarly with passwords and services like 1Password

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#46

Post by Shish2k »

warent wrote: post #32
maroonblazer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the likelihood of either of these happening? Neither of the links provide any data on incidence of ID theft leading to house stealing or being thrown in jail, which leads me to believe it's probably extremely low. Happy to be shown otherwise though.

It's non-zero. Does it matter by how much? Why increase your surface area of attack if it can be prevented?

> It's non-zero. Does it matter by how much?

Literally everything you do carries a non-zero risk of death, being 100% safe is impossible. Given that every day is a gamble, knowing your risk and reward ratios is important for deciding which activities to do and which to stay away from.

In this specific case, if dedicating your whole life to privacy reduces your odds of identity theft from 2% to 1%, I think a lot of people would say "I'll spend my life having fun and accept the higher risk"; if a tiny lifestyle change could reduce the odds from 20% to 1%, the outcome would probably be different.

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#48

Post by mch82 »

badestrand wrote: post #42

It is quite interesting that everyone is so alert about privacy now and hates Facebook and Google and just ten years ago people willingly published their address and phone number in a phone book for everyone to see. Also in Germany the cities sell every citizens' personal data and nobody cares. It is quite hipocritical.

Most people didn’t understand why privacy mattered. People are slowly learning the value of privacy through personal experience and the stories of others.

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#49

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

Shish2k wrote: post #46
warent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's non-zero. Does it matter by how much? Why increase your surface area of attack if it can be prevented?

> It's non-zero. Does it matter by how much? Literally everything you do carries a non-zero risk of death, being 100% safe is impossible. Given that every day is a gamble, knowing your risk and reward ratios is important for deciding which activities to do and which to stay away from. In this specific case, if dedicating your whole life to privacy reduces your odds of identity theft from 2% to 1%, I think a lot of pe…

Which is kinda besides the point? The question isn't whether you as an individual should dedicate your life to having privacy for yourself, but whether we as a society should make privacy a norm.

If everyone shits in the streets, the question isn't whether you should dedicate your life to avoiding all the shit to reduce your risk of infection, the question is whether society should stop shitting in the streets, because that's actually not much effort, while massively improving the health of everyone.

Re: Ask HN: So what if my personal information gets stolen?

#50

Post by mch82 »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #34
dahart wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we should do is think about the post-privacy world, where all data is available to everyone. Either I don't fully understand what you're suggesting, or you don't fully understand what you're suggesting. ;) Right to privacy is part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for good reasons. Violations and abuses of privacy have done a lot of damage to a lot of people throughout history. So what does authenti…

I suggest that a right to privacy is a mistake. It shouldn't exist. Unsustainability: It will only become more difficult to keep secrets as technology improves. Imagine cameras that can see through walls and drones the size of a fly. Unenforceability: How do you make people forget information on demand? How do you delete data from the internet? Inefficiency: We waste a lot of resources securing data. We waste a lot o…

How would Martin Luther King survive long enough to lead the civil rights movement in a world without privacy?
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