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Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#41
I suspect you're not going to get many personal stories here because it would be self-incriminating. But I have a couple from some people I know in tech.

1. I know the guy who, pre-Snowden, actually designed many of the pieces of network gear needed for the dragnet. His perspective was basically: Yes it's wrong, but what do I know? I just design electronic circuits.

2. Same guy also mentioned how at another company he worked at they used DNS tricks to exfiltrate data out of their enterprise clients. Nothing crazy, mostly just analytics to aid in things like product design. They got caught though. First Intel went out, then a couple hours later 4 other big tech companies (including Apple and Microsoft). Then a huge swath of devices stopped reporting. They got acquired shortly afterwards for a large, but sub-billion dollar amount.

3. I know a couple people that crack into devices and sell the 0days to the highest bidder. I consider this practice for anything cyber-physical (self-driving cars, etc) to be so unreasonably unethical that it should be against international law. It's one thing to sell these things to an allied government, it's quite another to have them on the open market.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#43

I was once assigned a task that had been estimated at 8 hours of development time, but only required the modification of a single line of code. I finished it in 5 minutes. My boss asked what happened, I told him, and he told me to revert the code, work on other tasks, and redo it at the end of the day so he could bill for 8 hours (in addition to billing for the other tasks I worked on). I did it and didn’t say anythi…

Guess I haven't had enough coffee -- I'm struggling to remember the joke in which the punchline is the professional telling the client something like "You're not paying me to do [one simple/small thing], but for the years of experience it takes to know that [it's that one simple thing]".

The problem with trying to charge for programming work is that so much non-trivial work can be summed up as a few keystrokes, or an addition of a single line, or even producing less code (by deletion/refactoring). That said, I don't understand why your boss thought this subterfuge was necessary. If the client is non-technical enough to approve 8 hours of billing for something that takes 5 minutes to fix, how is that client competent enough to look through the git history to know that it was only 5 minutes of work?

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#44

I was once assigned a task that had been estimated at 8 hours of development time, but only required the modification of a single line of code. I finished it in 5 minutes. My boss asked what happened, I told him, and he told me to revert the code, work on other tasks, and redo it at the end of the day so he could bill for 8 hours (in addition to billing for the other tasks I worked on). I did it and didn’t say anythi…

I think this is extremely common in payed-by-the-hour scenarios, when the person doing the tasks aren't on-site.

I also think most people are aware that's the case, and are fine with it since they've got an estimate that they've approved. The estimate was good enough to justify the business value so they expect to pay the full hours.

Letting people know you need more time is probably a bigger issue.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#45
post #5

I did some contract work for an online “payday loan” company for a bit. It didn’t take me long to realize I was ashamed of working with such a terrible industry, but my professionalism kept me there until I finished the job. Definitely a low point.

Payday loans are bad but they are not that unethical. The alternative option for people reliant on payday loans are actual loan sharks, which will turn out a lot worse for the debtor. So don’t be so hard on yourself. I think it would be difficult, but possible to run an ethical payday loan company that focuses on building people up and out of long term debt.

I love the Freakanomics podcast that gives both sides to the Payday Loan industry: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/payday-loans/

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#47
Moral questions come up surprisingly often in product development. Especially for smaller companies looking to grow fast or things like how aggressive to get with opt-ins and other 'dark patterns'.

Online lending, for example, is a pretty tricky area. You have to subscribe to a pretty hardcore version of a capitalist moral philosophy to justify the %xxx percent interest those places charge. Especially as the 'ideal' customer isn't the one who pays you back, it's the desperate population who continually re-up their ridiculously expensive loans.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#50

Circumvented browser features to force autoplay on videos with high volume on our websites. While not a morally bankrupt thing to do especially compared to some of the other examples, we all felt dirty doing it.

From an accessibility point of view this can be more than an annoyance. If your video means I can't hear my screen reader, and I'm the sort of user not to plan for this inevitable sort of event, my computer is unusable until it finishes or until I recover sufficiently from being disoriented to remember the hotkeys to get out of there. So please never do this again. Thx.
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