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Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#41

Post by rishirishi »

scarejunba wrote: post #28

This doesn't always happen but when it does, assuming economic efficiency and perfect information, there are some good reasons: * Managers' actions take effect across the entire team, and therefore having a 1x manager vs a 1.1x manager on a 10 person team is like if any individual (assuming evenness in the team) goes from 1x to 2x. * It is harder to find someone who can effectively manage human beings than someone wh…

For the sake of conversation, let's loosely define a manager as someone who is responsible for enabling teams to succeed and assessing performance of their directs. Could you pay that manager equal or less than their direct individual contributors? How would the market respond?

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#44

Post by blizkreeg »

Here's a simple rule for you to know. As you rise in your career and the ladder, you get paid (more) for results, not actions or efforts.

Managers and leaders get paid more for that singular reason. Shepherding a team to achieve a desired result is harder than it seems.

Of course there are bad managers...

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#45

Post by rishirishi »

fizixer wrote: post #33

I've never heard of the term 'individual contributor.' Can anyone clarify? As I understand teams are built from managerial roles and "worker" or technical or engineering roles. If it has to be a three tier system instead of two, it (typically) consists of a manager, then one or more tech/team lead(s), then engineer(s). I'm not sure which one of these are individual contributors. (or aren't they all?)

As per your description, engineers would be individual contributors.

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#46

Post by pbiggar »

trhway wrote: post #26
ransom1538 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great post. From my experience, becoming an IC that is "paid millions of $$" is akin to being Kobe Bryant [EG you prototyped google earth or wrote swift]. Most will never become Kobe Bryant - I don't care how many basketballs you toss in the air. But, IMHO becoming a highly paid manager just takes experience, a smile and luck (placed on the right team).

>But, IMHO becoming a highly paid manager just takes experience, a smile and luck (placed on the right team). like happening to be the manager of that guy who wrote swift.

I was interviewed by the manager of that guy who wrote Swift. In my limited interaction with him, he seemed like an incredibly competent manager. He managed a high-functioning team for around a decade, and somehow also wrote the original Clang static analyzer. Here's what Chris Lattner had to say about him: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/01/13/lattner-kremene...

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#47

Post by cel1ne »

The following is simplified.

Managers are people who enjoy being around groups of people more than they enjoy being around “things”.

ICs tend to reserve more time thinking and working alone and enjoy talks with individuals more than navigating group-dynamics.

Enjoyment in groups leads to experience in group dynamics. Experience in group dynamics and having many relationships gets you more chances to climb up the salary ladder.

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#48

Post by pbiggar »

rishirishi wrote: post #20
pbiggar wrote: post #13

In good companies there are two career paths: - a management track - an IC (individual contributor) track There are different levels on the different tracks, and each is paid for that level. A super experienced IC will be paid more than a junior manager, and vice versa. So it doesn't have to be true that a manager earns more than an IC, and for example many ICs at Google are paid millions of $$, much much more than t…

Good perspective, pbiggar. Question for clarification: Do those ICs making "a lot" report to managers that make more, less or equal (generally speaking of course)?

Everything is highly situational. I couldn't tell you whether it's better to have your most valuable ICs managed by the best managers, or whether the most valuable ICs need only limited management and you should have your best managers focusing on improving more junior engineers.

(This assumes that the "managers" are strictly people managers. Often, managers might do some or all of managing teams, products, releases, people, or technical leadership. It certainly wouldn't be unheard of to have a manager's team include an engineer far senior to the manager.)

Re: Ask HN: Why do managers get paid more than individual contributors?

#49

Post by sulam »

rishirishi wrote: post #20
pbiggar wrote: post #13

In good companies there are two career paths: - a management track - an IC (individual contributor) track There are different levels on the different tracks, and each is paid for that level. A super experienced IC will be paid more than a junior manager, and vice versa. So it doesn't have to be true that a manager earns more than an IC, and for example many ICs at Google are paid millions of $$, much much more than t…

Good perspective, pbiggar. Question for clarification: Do those ICs making "a lot" report to managers that make more, less or equal (generally speaking of course)?

I’ve managed people who were paid an order of magnitude more than I was making. I currently make more than most managers whose compensation I know at my current employer. (I technically make a LOT more than my manager, but special circumstances there.)

So it’s not unheard of. It is fairly uncommon however, the average manager is probably making somewhat more than the average engineer they manage at the large tech companies.

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