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Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

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Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#41

>there's also extreme examples like the inventor of homebrew that got rejected by google because he couldn't reverse a binary tree. HN has rehashed this debate plenty, but I don't think you should necessarily see this as an example of a dramatic failure of the Google SWE interview process. Homebrew became a success due to great vision and execution, not because it solved a challenging technical problem. Howell seems…

Not to mention it's one side of the story, could have come off wrong, been too pompous, or any other number of things.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#42

> But each failure kind of brings me down, and makes me think that I'm a bad engineer First off, you are not a bad engineer for failing a technical interview. Over the past 3 years, I've applied for hundreds of roles across dozens of companies. I've been through dozens of interviews and I've got offers from (or worked at) Uber, Twitter, Microsoft, Tesla, etc. The side of the story I don't focus on is that I've had ov…

> Over the past 3 years, I've applied for 300+ roles across 90+ companies not to bite on what you're saying (it's mostly accurate) but you've interned - the bar is much lower for interns than even junior devs. >I've applied for 300+ roles across 90+ companies i am interested in how you've managed to apply to multiple roles at the same company? is this across 3 internship seasons?

Applying to multiple position makes perfect sense if the company is big enough with multiple teams. Google probably has like 10 distinct positions that's applicable to someone. Often times, candidates don't get shared across positions, so you're really at a disadvantage if you don't put yourself in front of as many sources / hiring managers as possible.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#44

>there's also extreme examples like the inventor of homebrew that got rejected by google because he couldn't reverse a binary tree. HN has rehashed this debate plenty, but I don't think you should necessarily see this as an example of a dramatic failure of the Google SWE interview process. Homebrew became a success due to great vision and execution, not because it solved a challenging technical problem. Howell seems…

I think it's pretty safe to assume Google has plenty of dev work that isn't "uniquely complex and difficult technical problems"

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#45
The problem is, while possible that "white-board style questions eliminate a lot of bad candidates", it's a terrible and empirically unsubstantiated methodology of assessment given the purported goals most companies claim to have in hiring people.

In the event that it works at all, it does so by accident, not by design. Which is often evident in how hit-or-miss hiring someone is in most companies even after they've managed to make it through all these silly contrived crucibles.

To a certain extent it's a cargo culting problem. Insofar as companies like Google do it, and Google appears successful, and so other companies (failing to do any meaningful analysis or meta-analysis of their own) decide to model Google on the basis that surely their company will be successful just like Google. The problem, taking Google as the example, is that Google has AdWords. Which is for all intents and purposes a money printing machine. Google can be basically terrible at almost everything they do and still appear wildly successful so long as they don't disturb their money printer. As a result it's very difficult to just pattern-match to what Google does and evaluate either its benefit or its appropriateness in any context.

The other part of it is inertial. Often the wheel of hiring in a company started this way for lack of any better ideas, and then as the company grew it became proportionally more biased toward people who made it through a process like that, and then it becomes generationally perpetuated. The unfortunate side-effect of this is that biasing the employee population this way makes the job, for a new executive or manager, of changing these ineffective (and sometimes toxic) strategies extra difficult while trying to maintain team cohesion. Because it has a lasting cultural fingerprint.

Honestly, it's really a shame. I'm sorry you're having to go through it. My capacity to try to interact and change this weird marketplace phenomenon extends only about as far as the company for which I'm the Engineering hiring manager. My hope for you, and for others, is that you either find a place to work which doesn't do things this way, and/or you otherwise advance far enough in your career that nobody bothers to foist these silly ceremonies on you. Because your involvement in their pursuits is seen as a priori beneficial or existential.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#46

>there's also extreme examples like the inventor of homebrew that got rejected by google because he couldn't reverse a binary tree. HN has rehashed this debate plenty, but I don't think you should necessarily see this as an example of a dramatic failure of the Google SWE interview process. Homebrew became a success due to great vision and execution, not because it solved a challenging technical problem. Howell seems…

Google's focus, however, is on hiring SWEs that can solve uniquely complex and difficult technical problems.

I think that's kinda just marketing TBH. How else do you explain things like their habit of overhauling the graphics while removing functionality on many of their popular offerings? The last update of Google News looked a lot nicer but removed all user customization of the news feed - you can't even filter out sources any more.

I mean, maybe there are a lot of super-clever SWEs at google who are bored and frustrated with everyday consumer-centric product development and so do a terrible job at it until they're rotated onto something more interesting. I can't think of any other reason to inflict such a product on the public.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#47

>there's also extreme examples like the inventor of homebrew that got rejected by google because he couldn't reverse a binary tree. HN has rehashed this debate plenty, but I don't think you should necessarily see this as an example of a dramatic failure of the Google SWE interview process. Homebrew became a success due to great vision and execution, not because it solved a challenging technical problem. Howell seems…

> Howell seems like a great guy who would probably make a great senior developer, founder or PM at any company that aims to solve customer needs. Google's focus, however, is on hiring SWEs that can solve uniquely complex and difficult technical problems.

Huh? Isn't all difficulty in software complexity management? Isn't writing a package manager a sufficient demonstration of that? What's a "difficult technical problem"?

Isn't solving customer needs through managing technical complexity what Google should be hiring for, full stop?

I'm actually confused at the philosophy here.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#48
post #44

>there's also extreme examples like the inventor of homebrew that got rejected by google because he couldn't reverse a binary tree. HN has rehashed this debate plenty, but I don't think you should necessarily see this as an example of a dramatic failure of the Google SWE interview process. Homebrew became a success due to great vision and execution, not because it solved a challenging technical problem. Howell seems…

I think it's pretty safe to assume Google has plenty of dev work that isn't "uniquely complex and difficult technical problems"

Yes they do. Tons of it. And, for that stuff that is "uniquely complex and difficult" they don't lean nearly as heavily on these practices. They pull those people straight out of postdocs at CMU, Cambridge, MIT, Stanford, etc.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably take me less time due to not having the pressure of someone looking, but it might still take me ~ 30min. I think the general problem is that I don't deal with such low-level problems on a daily basis. I can write multi-threaded Kafka consumer app that processes thousands events per second and applies some basic ETL on them, add end-to-end integration test for it in But it may take me ~1/8th of that…

Interviewers are very bad at accounting for this. For example, there is almost no engineering question on the planet that people straightforwardly solve from first principles in 30 minutes, unless it’s totally shallow based on memorization or childish rote practice — and has virtually zero relationship to how they would ever solve any problem at work. But there are all kinds of insanely hard problems that people can…

>Seeing “how someone thinks” in an artificial 30-60 minute session only tests a completely separate and mostly unnecessary skill set

Totally agree. However, what's a good alternative? A company can't hire everyone for a trial week, and a candidate can't work a trial week for every company. It's really hard to design a hiring process that is efficient for both parties plus resistant to abuse.

Re: Ask HN: How to not fail on coding interview questions?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over the past 3 years, I've applied for 300+ roles across 90+ companies not to bite on what you're saying (it's mostly accurate) but you've interned - the bar is much lower for interns than even junior devs. >I've applied for 300+ roles across 90+ companies i am interested in how you've managed to apply to multiple roles at the same company? is this across 3 internship seasons?

> I am interested in how you've managed to apply to multiple roles at the same company? is this across 3 internship seasons? A lot of companies will list the same roles across different teams. Applying to (or interviewing with) all the different teams helps your chances. I'm at Tesla right now and I applied for 15 different roles over the span of 3 years before they gave me an offer.

but do you interview with the same company multiple times per season? isn't that like cheating? like taking basically the same test e.g. 10 times?
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