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Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#41

We've been doing doubletime to migrate off of an old Meteor app, due to its bundling of old versions of node and really questionable use of Mongo. I think that, in the right hands, Meteor is a great prototyping tool--putting into production and scaling it though is a fool's errand.

Meteor 1.6 supports Node 8.9.x. What's questionable about Meteor's use of Mongo? Reading the oplog? You don't need to use the reactivity if you don't want it. There is a simple API to either use polling or turn off reactivity altogether if you don't care about it.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#42
post #15

My company https://cleverbeagle.com is based on Meteor.js and we have an active customer base. I also run themeteorchef.com (tutorials on Meteor) and while we've definitely seen the hype die down, we still get organic traffic upwards of 25k uniques a month. Dead? No. We see a lot of new interest from overseas (Africa/Middle East/Asia). Technically speaking, Meteor's in the best state it's ever been: latest Node versi…

My experience with firebase is that it gets way more credit than it deserves. It's easy to develop on, but we had connectivity issues almost weekly with it, despite their status page saying everything was running smoothly. Firebase also has scaling issues. Last I heard, you can't have over 100,000 concurrent users, but it's not really publicly stated anywhere.

100K simultaneous connection limit is published here: https://firebase.google.com/docs/database/usage/limits

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#43
I run my SaaS https://focuster.com on Meteor and I have also built several SaaS projects for clients using Meteor as the base. Some have criticized the scalability of DDP. While out of the box the real-time reactivity won’t scale infinitely, the community has released packages like https://github.com/cult-of-coders/redis-oplog which is a great solution for scaling.

If I had to start over I’d probably still use Meteor but with Apollo as my data layer instead of DDP/pub-sub.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#44
post #25

We still use it, though we are phasing it out. In general, its solid for its use cases, but you need to understand what its good at. Its pretty great for small apps, prototyping, hobby projects, etc. There are a few things we learned that I'd share: Use React. Should be obvious. Meteor's react support is pretty great. Stay away from Meteor packages as much as possible. Its better to look for a similar NPM package and…

You could check out http://vulcanjs.org/, we're trying to get it to be a "Rails for GraphQL/React".

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#45

This comes up every so often here on HN: "Is Meteor.js dead?" - 19 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16622231 "Is Meteor.js still a thing?" - 5 months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624623 "Is Meteor(JS framework) is dying slowly?" - 1 year+ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303345 Personally I still use it but I think MDG made a big strategic mistake in organizing its marketing around DD…

The nice thing about Vue.js is that you can also combine it with Ruby on Rails. For the backend that gives you a very mature ecosystem. At our company that has been a great success https://about.gitlab.com/2017/11/09/gitlab-vue-one-year-late...

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#47
As we usually say technologies does not die easily. But they become legacy when no one want to use them for new project. The main problem of Meteor is scaling problem. Due to it's fundamental design and platform it's relying on (Mongo and node.js). It's very hard to solve the problem for current Meteor. But anyway on the other hand Meteor has extremely high velocity, higher than any framework I have seen (Of course even higher then Rails) due to it's isomorphic nature. Nowadays I'm betting on Elixir and Phoenix to achieve both high velocity and performance. The performance is literally crazy since it runs on Erlang/OTP. But frankly MVC + RDBMS is not something comparable to Meteor on velocity. Currently I'm trying to throw databases away and use WebSocket + GraphQL + GenServer(some in memory process storing data) to boost up velocity, only use data base as a process backup (message + process IS transaction. Then dirty write all the way down). Now there's still some boilerplate, but I found it's promising.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#48
Meteor is alive and well! In 2015, my business implemented a Meteor-based real-time vehicle tracking app utilising Blaze, Iron Router, DDP, Pub/Sub - features and packages that a vocal minority of misguided people seem to want to kill off or at least disseminate Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) over.

This anti-Meteor FUD is being spread for the following reasons:

1) Someone doesn’t know how to use the Meteor feature properly or have the engineering/computer science background to design a system to be able to manage computational complexity or scalability.

2) The Meteor feature or package is stable and mature so it hasn’t been generating much news or required drastic updates.

3) A competitor wants to promote a Meteor or Meteor package alternative that they have a vested interest in and are trying to manipulate people by creating self-fulfilling prophecies to kill off rivals.

Our Meteor app runs 24hrs/day and handles hundreds of drivers tracking in every few seconds whilst publishing real-time updates and reports to many connected clients. Yes, this means Pub/Sub and DDP.

This is easily being handled by a single Node.js process on a commodity Linux server consuming a fraction of a single core’s available CPU power during peak periods, using only several hundred megabytes of RAM.

How was this achieved?

We chose to use Meteor with MySQL instead of MongoDB. When using the Meteor MySQL package, reactivity is triggered by the MySQL binary log instead of the MongoDB oplog. The MySQL package provides finer-grained control over reactivity by allowing you to provide your own custom trigger functions.

Accordingly, we put a lot of thought into our MySQL schema design and coded our custom trigger functions to be selective as possible to prevent SQL queries from being needlessly executed and wasting CPU, IO and network bandwidth by publishing redundant updates to the client.

As we know, Meteor is tightly integrated with MongoDB which we did not consider to be well-suited to our needs. Did this result in us ranting publicly about how Meteor and/or MongoDB are “dying” or “having no future”? No!

Instead, we found a way to embrace and extend Meteor - an ongoing task.

In terms of scalability in general, are we limited to a single Node.js process? Absolutely not - we use Nginx to terminate the connection from the client and spread the load across multiple Node.js processes. Similarly, MySQL master-slave replication allows us to spread the load across a cluster of servers.

In my view, the reason why Meteor is not more popular is because too few people are sharing their Meteor success stories and the MDG has not been doing much to promote Meteor publicly.

More people need to showcase their Meteor-based solutions and stories of success at technical conferences and developer meetups and events - especially those that concern NodeJS, MongoDB, MySQL, Databases, IoT and WebApps in general.

And what makes Meteor superior to plain Node.js development? We get much higher productivity from our programmers who can write less code and make fewer mistakes developing in Meteor compared to say using Node.js with express. Here are 3 benefits we enjoy:

1) Meteor's use of fibers allows a synchronous programming style whilst avoiding callback hell. Meteor has an easy to use facility Meteor.wrapAsync() that allows you to use run any callback function, e.g. from a third-party package, within a fiber. There is also Promise.await() that does the same thing for packages that use Promises.

2) The isomorphic design promotes code reuse between the client and server-side and simplifies client-server communications. You simply decide whether you want to implement a Meteor method or a Meteor publication based on your application's needs.

3) Meteor's inbuilt, easy-to-use data validation methods promote secure, robust code.

In summary, Meteor is much greater than the sum of its parts.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#49
post #45

This comes up every so often here on HN: "Is Meteor.js dead?" - 19 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16622231 "Is Meteor.js still a thing?" - 5 months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624623 "Is Meteor(JS framework) is dying slowly?" - 1 year+ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303345 Personally I still use it but I think MDG made a big strategic mistake in organizing its marketing around DD…

The nice thing about Vue.js is that you can also combine it with Ruby on Rails. For the backend that gives you a very mature ecosystem. At our company that has been a great success https://about.gitlab.com/2017/11/09/gitlab-vue-one-year-late...

Yes, there are advantages to being decoupled from the underlying framework, as you point out.

If you're a Ruby on Rails shop, Meteor is probably not for you.

But I think people under-appreciate Meteor's value proposition of not having to piece together multiple frameworks -- especially in JavaScript world, which seemingly produces a new framework every other day.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js dead?

#50

Anecdotally, everyone I knew who tried it complained about lock-in (environment too prescriptive and has behavior you can't opt-out of) and no longer uses it. There is development activity in the repo, but I would say the 'hype' has moved to other projects.

Meteor is an "opinionated framework", but there is no lock-in - you can use any NPM package you want.

Even DDP and reactivity can be turned off, though these are powerful and useful features for real-time applications.

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