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Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

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Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#41

Post by vbtemp »

Salary range and the attributes of what a candidate would need to get to be the top of that range.

Appearances of avoiding or deferring that discussion frustrate me immensely, as it seems like the company is trying to compensate with fluff before getting to the facts of it. This is because - at the end of the day - salary is simply the most important thing. It is how you provide for yourself and your family. It is how you build wealth and stability and safety for your life, and nothing else comes close. When my company provides me, via a solid salary, this financial security, I am 200% invested in making its mission successful, whatever the tech stack or other details of the role.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#42

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

0x4f3759df wrote: post #20
rajacombinator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to “rockstar”, “guru”, etc being a dead giveaway of a terrible company.

Also don't talk about the 'free soda', 'nerf gun wars', 'air hockey table' or something else that indicates you treat your employees like children. I also hate the ninja/rockstar stuff.

Agreed. Save that money to pay good talent more, and save the time so I can get out of work in 40 hours a week or less.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#43

Post by Jemmeh »

rb808 wrote: post #32
rajacombinator wrote: post #10

Salary range. Critical info that most job listings don’t have. I’m much more likely to consider a job if I know it has an appropriate salary range.

The problem is we are interested in lots of different levels, if you put a typical range you wont get the best people. If you put a high number out you get every nutter in town applying. As a result we dont publish a range.

Could you show the range and then right before someone submits a resume they have to answer 1 or 2 questions. Like -really- basic stuff would weed out a lot of the bots and "I use computers, I can do it!" people. Just needs to be something that takes like 5 minutes or less.

Just me but I'd rather know salary up front and not spend an entire interview just to be low-balled. Wastes everyone's time.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#44

Post by matfil »

rajacombinator wrote: post #12
nathanaldensr wrote: post #6

For tactical positions like programming, required skills and optional skills are probably a minimum. However, I have found that the most attractive job ads are those that talk about the culture of the company in addition to what they expect of me. I like ads that communicate that I would be an appreciated member of the team. Dry lists of bullet points are a turn-off; they give the impression that the company just wan…

+1 to “rockstar”, “guru”, etc being a dead giveaway of a terrible company.

I’ve seen them become unfashionable over the past few years. Is it the implied individualism that gives these words “terrible company” associations?

Is there a good word for an experienced person who is better at shutting the door and working through problems rather that doing things in a team?

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#45

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

jamestimmins wrote: post #24
Jemmeh wrote: post #11

Company - Address - (Remote Allowed?) Job Title - Department Description of Company Description of Job Tech Stack Requirements How Interview Works Salary Range Benefits [Click to Apply without having to retype your whole resume]

It's also important to be honest about what tech makes up most of your stack. Lots of companies say "We use a mix of {sexy_tech} {sexy_tech} and {unsexy_tech}", when 90+% of their codebase is in {unsexy_tech}. I see this frequently, and it's misleading.

That's the "put up a group photo" method of describing a job. Hint: unless there are other pictures, assume that the most unattractive person in the picture is the person in the profile.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#46

Post by rb808 »

Jemmeh wrote: post #43
rb808 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is we are interested in lots of different levels, if you put a typical range you wont get the best people. If you put a high number out you get every nutter in town applying. As a result we dont publish a range.

Could you show the range and then right before someone submits a resume they have to answer 1 or 2 questions. Like -really- basic stuff would weed out a lot of the bots and "I use computers, I can do it!" people. Just needs to be something that takes like 5 minutes or less. Just me but I'd rather know salary up front and not spend an entire interview just to be low-balled. Wastes everyone's time.

Yep that is what the internal recruiters are for. We have something like pay depending on experience, You should talk to them and they'll discuss. Definitely you should know what is possible before interviewing.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#47

Post by thomaspaine »

rb808 wrote: post #32
rajacombinator wrote: post #10

Salary range. Critical info that most job listings don’t have. I’m much more likely to consider a job if I know it has an appropriate salary range.

The problem is we are interested in lots of different levels, if you put a typical range you wont get the best people. If you put a high number out you get every nutter in town applying. As a result we dont publish a range.

Why can't you publish multiple salary ranges per job post (level 1: $X1 - $Y1, level 2: $X2 - $Y2, etc) or multiple job posts (one for each level)?

Neglecting to publish a salary range seems more like a negotiation tactic on behalf of companies of not wanting to be the first to name a number. Either that or you know your company can't compete on salary, which is my typical assumption when it's a company I've never heard of and I don't see a range provided.

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#48

Post by lynnetye »

I have no idea why job descriptions look the way they do today, but I've devoted the last ~9 months of my life encouraging companies, specifically engineering teams, to provide more information up front about who they are and what it's actually like to work there. Candidates want to know so much more than just salary and tech stack.

https://www.keyvalues.com

Candidates want to know about as much as possible before investing hours/days/weeks interviewing at a company. Who wants to waste all that time trying to get an offer from a company they don't even want to work at?!

Here are things candidates might want to know about:

- office layout

- on call schedule

- lunch traditions

- support for personal development

- organization/structure (ie. pods vs. teams)

- engagement with the greater community

- participation in meetups/conferences/hackathons

- ability to move between teams and change projects

- culture of promotion (external or from w/in?)

- hiring goals for the next 6, 12 months

- composition of team (X frontend, Y backend, Z data, etc)

- interview process

- employee retention

- diversity goals and metrics

- flexibility of working arrangements

- frequency and duration of meetings

- opportunities to mentor interns or junior devs

- code reviews

- post mortems

- tooling (ie. for revision control)

- how often do people pair?

- channels to provide feedback to executives

- contributions to open source

- average age?

- support/benefits for parents

- "busy times" or "peak seasons" for the company

- runway

- hobbies/interests of current team members aka future coworkers

- level/amount of interaction between me and users/customers

- ability to work remotely

- support for IC vs. management tracks

- amount of collaboration between departments

- is this job available because they're fortifying existing teams or spinning up new ones?

- general, day-to-day working hours

The list goes on and on.

I also wrote tons of questions for candidates to ask during their job interviews to get information about all of the above: https://www.keyvalues.com/culture-queries

Re: Ask HN: What information should be in any job description page?

#50

Post by rajacombinator »

matfil wrote: post #44
rajacombinator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to “rockstar”, “guru”, etc being a dead giveaway of a terrible company.

I’ve seen them become unfashionable over the past few years. Is it the implied individualism that gives these words “terrible company” associations? Is there a good word for an experienced person who is better at shutting the door and working through problems rather that doing things in a team?

No, it’s the implied treating your employees as children who value “totally zany” job titles rather than respect, meaningful work and compensation. It shows either lack of professionalism or malicious “how can we fool those code monkeys” intent. Just use descriptive job titles.
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