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Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

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Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is illegal in some areas, even if your contract says it, so as always make sure you know your rights.

In California employers can't claim ownership of work done off the clock[1]. Non-competes are also not enforceable generally in California[2]. [1]. http://law.onecle.com/california/labor/2870.html [2]. https://www.tradesecretsandtransitions.com/2017/01/californi...

Are non-enforceable non-competes a recent thing?

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#42
Ethically, it's a bit dicey. I wouldn't feel great about working for an employer and deliberately slacking off or working on personal stuff most of the time. But then many employers are full of practices that are just as dicey on the ethical scale, if not more.

I lean towards, if you're in a situation where you have to do something ethically dubious to survive, then go ahead, as long as you're spending some effort on getting out of the situation. If you're making a legitimate effort to get out of the situation rather than wallowing in it, then you're clean enough in my book.

Do double-check your IP though. Depending on your country/state and any contracts you may have signed, your employer may have a legal right to things you have worked on. If the situation is at all unclear, it's worth a consultation with an appropriate lawyer to review your situation and be aware of what could happen if you ever try to take investment or get acquired.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#43
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some contracts even give ownership of what you create on your free time to the company.

Which is illegal in some areas, even if your contract says it, so as always make sure you know your rights.

I'm curious what places would make the contract invalid considering the work is being done on-the-clock and likely on company equipment.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#44
WOW!, what happened to personal integrity? If you think what you're doing is right then forward this thread to your boss. I assume you put the same integrity into your "dream" work; with that said I would advise all to avoid whatever you publish as you won't apparently put any more in than you think you can get away with.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#45
As long as you're not violating your contract with your employer, it puts you in a better position down the road, right?

Employers have so much more negotiating power than employees that I find it extremely hard to feel sorry for them / blame employees in this kind of a situation. Obviously, if you're looking to make a difference in the company, or get promoted, or build experience you can use elsewhere, it's the wrong way to go. It may not be the best route to personal happiness either (making customers happy is probably key there, if you are in contact with customers). But it's your life, and once you leave the company everything you built there belongs to someone else. I don't see why anyone needs to pour their soul into building someone else's capital, in a moral sense.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#46

- shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen - Managers are very hands-off here, not many meetings either I was in a similar spot. You can get away with a ton of stuff in an environment like this, but as you've probably guessed, it will quickly bore you or the code base will invoke tears. Bonus if they let you work from home, and they probably would if you come up with a decent reason.…

You mentioned "shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen" Do you realize that this is your fault too? Your job is to manage, maintain and improve the code-base but, instead, you choose to take advantage of the fact that you still get paid because people aren't micromanaging you and forcing you to do your job. You should realize that lousy codebases and micromanagers exist because of th…

The tech-lead is responsible for the codebase.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost everybody is underpaid That doesn't make sense. If someone is underpaid, they make less than most other people who do the same job. If "almost everybody" is making a certain amount, then they aren't underpaid -- they make the market rate.

I'm talking about uneven share of profits. Ownership takes it all. We are paid the minimum possible in most cases.

The way to share in a company's profits is through stock. Most large companies have employee stock purchase plans and/or give stock as compensation -- not just tech companies. This gives employees a share of profits and makes them partial owners of the company. I'm not sure what more you want.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#48

I can't speak to doing something to make sidemoney while you're on the clock. But I can speak to the boredom side of this question. Whenever you feel the temptation to just slack off, come up with something that you could do to help the company out that would also be enjoyable. For instance: Most of my job is in Javascript/web and Golang. A few months ago I needed to get back into the swing of C# (and learn WinForms)…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#49
Ugh... Let me give you a different point of view that will most likely not be popular in HNs, but what the hell.

I have had employees like you, and I try to scan like the plague during interviews to avoid hiring folks like you.

The thing is, that I hate to be micro-managed and by extension, I hate to micro-manage people. Since to have a good work environment, you need to have trust that works both ways.

When one person does what you do (20% barely getting by to appear like you are actually getting something done), you create resentment to the other folks in your team: "Why is throwaway184827 getting a pass when we are all working to do our best? This sucks, I end up having to do his work".

It is because of people like you that we had to create a structure to make sure that progress is being done, and so, overhead is being added and the party is over.

Do your employer and your teammates a favor and quit right now. Work in whatever is that you truly love - otherwise you are being toxic to people around you - and more importantly, yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#50

- shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen - Managers are very hands-off here, not many meetings either I was in a similar spot. You can get away with a ton of stuff in an environment like this, but as you've probably guessed, it will quickly bore you or the code base will invoke tears. Bonus if they let you work from home, and they probably would if you come up with a decent reason.…

You mentioned "shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen" Do you realize that this is your fault too? Your job is to manage, maintain and improve the code-base but, instead, you choose to take advantage of the fact that you still get paid because people aren't micromanaging you and forcing you to do your job. You should realize that lousy codebases and micromanagers exist because of th…

The shitty code base existed before they got there. Dropping 'new, refactored code base' onto your managers lap can go a couple of ways. Doing it quietly is a recipe for disaster because then you have no support. Your manager could deny a rewrite altogether. Then what?

If we had reasonable social safety nets, I would say quickly that he is irresponsible staying after finding out about the code base. But the problem is that employers upsell the stuff you're going to be working on. They don't tell you upfront that it's shit and you're the one to rewrite it. If you ask them about the quality of their code, they'd likely respond with "it has some painful points here and there" or some other non-answer.

If they hired OP to rewrite it, then yes, they're not fulfilling their responsibilities. But it sounds like a place that just shovels JIRA issues at you and tells you to go fix them.

An employer-employee relationship does not necessarily imply "I must do everything in my power to make sure this product is the best that it can be within my 40hrs/week". If you are leadership or a product owner, you have that burden, but not necessarily a LOB developer position. If they gave him that responsibility, they should immediately ask for a significant raise, because they've changed virtually the entire job which they were hired for.

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