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Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

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Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#41

Post by sidlls »

RandomOpinion wrote: post #39
sidlls wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit like saying a physicist is more capable of understanding how satellites work than an engineer who designs satellites because he knows the underlying theory better. It's kind of true in some sense but doesn't really capture the context or nuance that goes into a non-trivial engineering effort, or the more general case asserted by the topic author.

That's not a very good analogy. Most would agree, I think, that the separation between CS, as taught in most programs, and professional software development is far, far smaller than the separation between physics and aerospace engineering.

Well, that's another discussion altogether. I'm of the view that the closeness of professional software development to academic CS is one of the biggest problems in the industry from the perspective of regarding it as an engineering discipline.

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#42

Post by 40acres »

hackermailman wrote: post #35
akhilcacharya wrote: post #33

Bigger question to me is - how do we non-Top4 plebs rise to even 70% of their level?

Study some of it yourself https://functionalcs.github.io/curriculum/ though you miss a lot not being in group projects, getting feedback from TAs and profs, ect.

This is a great resource but looks incredibility intimidating, has anyone completed his and provided feedback as to how the curriculum is set up for self learning?

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#43

Post by jghn »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #29
yomly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assert that, given that great engineers end up at these top unis, they are able to widen their gap with others by a) accelerating their skills/knowledge by associating with like-minded individuals, and b) being stretched by their respective colleges. My observation is that top colleges tend to lump more work of greater breadth and depth in their students. It's like joining a great sports academy where you dev…

/second, came here to say this too. The top schools give their students much more, harder problem sets, exams, etc. than others. Some grade on a curve too, meaning that if everyone scores between 90-100, they don't all get A's, rather the bottom third gets C's, the mid 90s get B's, and the top third get A's. Creates an extremely competitive environment that pushes folks with raw talent to really work hard to hone it.…

What modern top level colleges scale grades downward?

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#44

Post by charlesdm »

rntz wrote: post #12
aphextron wrote: post #2

I've spent a lot of time around Stanford and Berkeley CS grads. The main difference I would say is not that they are particularly more intelligent than anyone else, but that they are filled with an incredible amount of motivation. They tend to be extremely driven, focused people who are capable of putting in tons of work to "get shit done". They also tend to have a million different things going on at once (clubs, si…

CMU grad here, currently working on a PhD. All I can say is, this description doesn't apply to me. I'm definitely of the "work smart, not hard" persuasion. Persistence, I guess I have; but not an unbounded work ethic, or the focus to work on ten things at a time. Persistence for me means finding a new way to attack a problem, not pushing as hard as possible, John Henry style.

Nothing wrong with that. Life isn't supposed to be all about work. I've made plenty of money working smart, not hard. I enjoy building stuff, but I'd much rather prefer working less than more (and I do). Laziness (in some way or another) can often also drive innovation.

That, and I don't believe you can be really productive for more than 3-4 hours straight (even a day, unless you take a long break) anyway on a consistent basis.

20% of the effort often gets you 80% of the way there. At that point you have to decide whether putting in the additional effort is worth it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#45

Post by compsciphd »

intrasight wrote: post #38
SkyMarshal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/second, came here to say this too. The top schools give their students much more, harder problem sets, exams, etc. than others. Some grade on a curve too, meaning that if everyone scores between 90-100, they don't all get A's, rather the bottom third gets C's, the mid 90s get B's, and the top third get A's. Creates an extremely competitive environment that pushes folks with raw talent to really work hard to hone it.…

Yes. Competition is a powerful motivator. I recall at CMU one day when they gathered all us ECE students together in an auditorium and said "There are an order of magnitude (base 2) too many of you here - we will have to fail half of you out. Look to your left. Look to your right. Those two students may soon be gone." Swear to God a true story. Any fellow classmates ('88) can vouch for the meeting. Meant that a "C" w…

its a common engineering thing. In my Dad's EE class in the mid 60s they did the same thing.

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#46

Post by nunez »

intrasight wrote: post #38
SkyMarshal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/second, came here to say this too. The top schools give their students much more, harder problem sets, exams, etc. than others. Some grade on a curve too, meaning that if everyone scores between 90-100, they don't all get A's, rather the bottom third gets C's, the mid 90s get B's, and the top third get A's. Creates an extremely competitive environment that pushes folks with raw talent to really work hard to hone it.…

Yes. Competition is a powerful motivator. I recall at CMU one day when they gathered all us ECE students together in an auditorium and said "There are an order of magnitude (base 2) too many of you here - we will have to fail half of you out. Look to your left. Look to your right. Those two students may soon be gone." Swear to God a true story. Any fellow classmates ('88) can vouch for the meeting. Meant that a "C" w…

rutgers did the same thing iirc

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#47

Post by yodon »

When graduating, I knew I'd had the joy of working on real problems, designing real things, and being surrounded by really smart friends doing the same.

Much later I realized the classroom learning I'd thought was getting in the way of my experiential learning was what gave me the discipline to dig in and learn the things I needed to know to do the things I wanted to do.

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#48

Post by tracker1 »

sidlls wrote: post #41
RandomOpinion wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a very good analogy. Most would agree, I think, that the separation between CS, as taught in most programs, and professional software development is far, far smaller than the separation between physics and aerospace engineering.

Well, that's another discussion altogether. I'm of the view that the closeness of professional software development to academic CS is one of the biggest problems in the industry from the perspective of regarding it as an engineering discipline.

Agreed.. software engineering, as usually practiced, is definitely a craft. It's a very technical craft, but still a craft discipline.

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#49

Post by yodon »

aphextron wrote: post #2

I've spent a lot of time around Stanford and Berkeley CS grads. The main difference I would say is not that they are particularly more intelligent than anyone else, but that they are filled with an incredible amount of motivation. They tend to be extremely driven, focused people who are capable of putting in tons of work to "get shit done". They also tend to have a million different things going on at once (clubs, si…

Lots of people responding to the "get shit done" post seem to be talking about how they procrastinate or "think" but don't like to work hard. If you want to get to the top of your field, whatever it is, it's not enough to just be smart. You also need to love to work hard in your field.

If you don't love to work hard in your field and you do want to get to the top of the field, you're on a road to problems because everyone at the top of your field is as smart as you are AND they are driven by passion to work incredibly hard. You can't get into their league without both.

So, if you want to get to the top of your field and don't want to work hard in it, my advice is either (a) find the joy that makes you want to work hard or (b) find a different field that does bring you that joy and desire to work hard.

(Note there is no requirement that you want to get to the top of your field, this is just for those who do want to do so)

Re: Ask HN: A question for those who went to MIT/Stanford/CMU

#50

Post by akhilcacharya »

hackermailman wrote: post #37
akhilcacharya wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go to a school ranked ~48 by USNews. Concerned that I'll be I'll always be scraping the bottom, salary and respect wise because of it.

CMU/Stanford is full of grad students who went to so-called lesser ranked schools. You could also do the background work and get one of your professors to write a recommendation for you to attend the Oregon Programming Language Summer School or other summer conference where you can learn from these Stanford/CMU/MIT professors and other students. https://www.cs.uoregon.edu/research/summerschool/summer17/sc... a friend…

Valid points, but I don't have a 4.0 or any publications yet (I'm a junior). It feels like grad school is out of reach a top school.
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