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Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#41

Post by poikniok »

notforgot wrote: post #26
greyostrich wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the zero feedback loop. I passed the test, yet I failed it and don't know why.

I was on the job market recently and similar things happened to me. It's worse when you don't get feedback after you go to an interview. Two days ago I thought of making a job site that requires the employer to provide feedback, and the candidate to sign a form that says they won't sue the employer over the interview process. This way the employer has no excuse for not giving feedback. Would you use this?

The form will not be legally binding, so the premise of your site is broken.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#42

Post by gravypod »

BillBohan wrote: post #19

If a company wants me to write code, they need to pay me for it. I came across a similar situation where a prospective employer sent me the requirements for a complex routine and gave me 7 days to return functioning and commented code. My estimate was that it would take me 2 days to do it, so it would probably have taken 6 days. I can envision an unscrupulous business model whereby you do the top level design and bre…

This is only a practice because people are being tricked into doing it. Also, I'm not too sure you're being cynical. This is the obvious next step to an interview puzzel, isn't it?

   * I need to test my employee so I give them a test
   * A test isn't code so I give them a coding HW
   * The coding HW isn't representative of our work, so...
   * I give them a small chunk of my real work.
This is pretty stupid. I've just barely started in the working market and I think my resume is solid enough that I won't mess around with any BS like this and if no one else does then they will finally stop.

There is one proviso (as usual). I'm completely fine with coming in and doing a pair exercise with people if the job requires pair work. I mean, that's not really about the programming at that point (maybe just write a simple web scraper) together with someone you'll actually be working with to see if you can all get along. Crack a few jokes, get some work done, leave with a better understanding of the enviroment. I'd be fine with that but nothing that would take more then 1-2 hr.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#44

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

poikniok wrote: post #41
notforgot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the job market recently and similar things happened to me. It's worse when you don't get feedback after you go to an interview. Two days ago I thought of making a job site that requires the employer to provide feedback, and the candidate to sign a form that says they won't sue the employer over the interview process. This way the employer has no excuse for not giving feedback. Would you use this?

The form will not be legally binding, so the premise of your site is broken.

Could show stats on companies that did not provide feedback, would deter some people from applying.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#45

Post by paulcole »

paulddraper wrote: post #10

I had 4.0 GPA, valedictorian, 2400 SAT, 800 on three SAT II tests, a varsity letter, awards in chemistry and math competitions, and 5s on 14 AP tests. I got turned down by MIT. Yeah, it sucks but anger will hardly help. And there are always upsides. In my case I went to state U on full-ride and saved myself $170k in tuition. In your case, you avoided being hired by a less-than-competent company.

>I had 4.0 GPA, valedictorian, 2400 SAT, 800 on three SAT II tests, a varsity letter, awards in chemistry and math competitions, and 5s on 14 AP tests.

I used to work with students polishing admissions essays for colleges like MIT.

The one thing I learned is that a resume like you listed isn't what gets you into a school like MIT. It's those things + something that makes you a uniquely appealing candidate.

Sure, you can get into MIT with your resume, but it's also very possible to be passed over. But the kid with that resume + something special is very very unlikely to get overlooked.

MIT, Harvard, etc. can fill an entire class with outstanding academic records. But they want people who are going to be truly special in the future and the best way to do that is select people who are already there. And they have their pick.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#46

Post by bcbrown »

smt88 wrote: post #29
bcbrown wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for a job, where do you live, and why don't you have your email in your profile? If you're in Seattle, send me an email; my email's in my profile.

I'm not looking for a job, but if you're looking for employees, why do you limit your search to a small, expensive city like Seattle? What are the downsides of remote work that are keeping you away from it?

I am not my employer, and that policy is not mine to set.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#47

Post by _xhok »

paulcole wrote: post #45
paulddraper wrote: post #10

I had 4.0 GPA, valedictorian, 2400 SAT, 800 on three SAT II tests, a varsity letter, awards in chemistry and math competitions, and 5s on 14 AP tests. I got turned down by MIT. Yeah, it sucks but anger will hardly help. And there are always upsides. In my case I went to state U on full-ride and saved myself $170k in tuition. In your case, you avoided being hired by a less-than-competent company.

>I had 4.0 GPA, valedictorian, 2400 SAT, 800 on three SAT II tests, a varsity letter, awards in chemistry and math competitions, and 5s on 14 AP tests. I used to work with students polishing admissions essays for colleges like MIT. The one thing I learned is that a resume like you listed isn't what gets you into a school like MIT. It's those things + something that makes you a uniquely appealing candidate. Sure, you…

In practice the "something very special" thing comes down to how well you can bullshit admissions. If you helped kids polish their essays, you know this.

The annual number of 18yos who have done genuinely remarkable things is less than the size of the Ivy league freshman list.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#48

Post by taneem »

greyostrich wrote: post #14
icedchai wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the opposite of my experience, both as a candidate and a hiring manager over the past couple of years. There are many openings, not enough competent people to fill them. We are essentially at peak employment for tech.

Unfortunately, I've been trying to find my first job of university. I wish I knew how to be competent enough. What do you look for?

Send me a link to your resume/LI profile and I'll be happy to try and give you some pointers (I'm a PM and I work with devs and have hired devs before).

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#49

Post by khedoros1 »

fspear wrote: post #32
khedoros1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If so, it's disturbing that I had to do this challenge in order to get them to read my resume. I'd read that more like "after considering all data points...". I'm sure they read your resume beforehand. Maybe the discussion on their hiring team was "Well, if he pulls out some magic in the coding challenge..." You never know. It's not helpful to be angry about it, although it's natural and understandable. It's not ev…

>Maybe the discussion on their hiring team was "Well, if he pulls out some magic in the coding challenge..." This is an unreasonable expectation. If it gets to that point then it should be a no-hire, don't waste the candidates time.

People often don't act reasonably, and "should" isn't "will". That was part of my point. OP is looking for a reason, and sometimes there isn't a reason that could be supported logically.

Re: Ask HN: Am I right to be angry about the interview process?

#50

Post by urahara »

paulcole wrote: post #5

>Am I right to be angry about the interview process? You have the right to be angry about it. But ask yourself if that anger is doing you any good? If not, why bother getting worked up? Are you in a position that allows you to decline interviews? Do you feel strongly that interviews should be conducted in a certain way? Feel free to turn down any that don't meet your requirements. But don't expect any company to acco…

Being angry in terms of raising your voice againat these practicies is doing a lot of good for sure, it's pretty obvious. And of course people should not only start to expect companies to accommodate their desires in the hiring processes, but also actively advocate for it and insist on changing current practices of disrespectful candidate's time wasting. Very obvious, no?
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