Thanks for the responses guys. A few more points of clarification. PM means product manager. Top 3 tech think Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple. In terms of my motivation I think today we are where the internet was in 1994-95, at the cusp of the next big technology wave. I think technologies like deep learning and AI more broadly will fundamentally change every single industry and the next big tech companies will be created during this period. Not knowing how to code I think places me at a big disadvantage when it comes to the software jobs that will open up and at a disadvantage if I want to take a stab at starting a company using these technologies. It is a risky bet for sure, but if I think long-term I have a feeling learning to code and being immersed in engineering by working as a software engineer will be a very smart move. But I could be completely wrong lol :)
Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
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Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#42I agree with your projection for the future and that PMs in general develop only limited skills for building products or contributing at the ground floor, but I would not get into programming unless you feel like you're wired for it, because you may invest years only to become mediocre, and can even grow to hate it.
Why not contribute by launching a startup as CEO? If a Harvard MBA with deep pockets and PM experience reached out about her startup idea, that is a beer or coffee I would take seriously. In other words it sounds like you have the background to attract a talented programmer cofounder.
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#43Yes very crazy. I have a anecdotal survey of all coders I know: most of whom all graduated from only median Tier-2 US & News Report Ranked Nat'l Universities (>15) and whom have on average, earn only median Fortune Magazine's Best Jobs annual ranked salaries as Application Developer, and only very few employed by Forbes' Most Admired Companies list or who are on the Mattermark's Top 100 Startup Index. Most don't feel…
> such as closing JIRA tickets I'm not a big fan of JIRA myself, but even cool startups need to use an issue tracker?
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Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#44Yes very crazy. I have a anecdotal survey of all coders I know: most of whom all graduated from only median Tier-2 US & News Report Ranked Nat'l Universities (>15) and whom have on average, earn only median Fortune Magazine's Best Jobs annual ranked salaries as Application Developer, and only very few employed by Forbes' Most Admired Companies list or who are on the Mattermark's Top 100 Startup Index. Most don't feel…
I don't think this is entirely accurate. Yes, enterprise coding can be really boring and mundane, but just as often it can be interesting and challenging and involve new technologies. As an entry level programmer, sure, you'll do Jira tickets and HTML fixes, but once you get just a touch of seniority, depending on the organization, you can get some neat opportunities.
Lots of enterprise coders are tasked with evaluating new technology, working on greenfields experiments, like building a Hadoop cluster or starting out an OpenStack test deployment. Other times, there are extremely specialized jobs in enterprises. I have some friends who write Erlang in enterprises, and they go home at 5, don't find the work too stressful, and have plenty of interesting problems to solve.
Yes, there's a lot of great tech to play with out there. You can do that on your own time as much as you can do that at an enterprise. Yeah, startups might be more inclined to work with this stuff, but they're also just as inclined to make a big tech mistake and end up 1 year down the wrong road.
Finally, I am not a fan of bootcamps to learn to code. I think they're fine to get you started, but I doubt you can actually make a real career out of just a boot camp. You'll need experience and a lot more real-world time to learn how things work when you're developing software with a dozen other people at the same time. It's a lot more complicated than just knowing how to write functions and use git.
Everyone I know who did a coding bootcamp and got a job, got a job doing the absolute most basic stuff imaginable: bug reports, bug fixes, testing, etc. There's a lot of stuff you won't learn at the bootcamp that needs to be done in an enterprise: compliance and governance work, requirements gathering, documentation development, CI/CD concerns, how to build and tweak a delivery pipeline, deployment stuff, provisioning stuff. There's a ton to learn in enterprise software development, and learning how to whip out a program in Ruby or JavaScript won't adequately prepare you. It may get your foot in the door, but expect another 2 years of working there before you'll be truly ready for a promotion or better job.
And, yes, ageism is a thing, but the absolute best programmers in the world tend to be over 50. They may not know JavaScript, but they can write an entire OS in assembly, and they tend to understand the hardware/software stack down to the bit. Old coders are absolutely incredible and wise. Anyone who is ageist in the valley against coders is really fucking themselves over.
I think the best bet for you is to do the coding boot camp, then go back to being a PM. Knowing how to actually write software is probably the most valuable skill a software dev PM can have: it'll make it a lot easier to understand why everything takes so damn long. It'll also make you much more appealing to a Google or a Facebook.
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#45As someone who runs a startup,here are some personal observations.
I would say, a PM has to understand the user needs, and drive the product. The former has got two parts 1. Understanding the user needs which the user can articulate 2. Understanding the user needs which the users cannot articulate.
I have had the opportunity to work with some of the best coders. Though I greatly admired their intellectual capability, I was not a big fan of their ability to think from customer's shoes. I have figured out that "Common sense is not so common". Now, having an MBA does not guarantee common sense, but if you think that, you can communicate effectively with your users, understand their needs, empathise with them, and can comfortably put yourself in their shoes, your are definitely adding value as a PM on Point No 1
Understanding the user needs which the users cannot articulate - This is where innovation begins. Now, if you are a PM without the ability to code, you may be at a slight disadvantage here. The ability to code, or perhaps the understanding of the fundamentals, would help you to structure your thoughts. It gives you a clear picture on what is possible and what is not possible at the present, from where, you can start to innovate.
To me, Quitting the job appears certainly crazy.
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#46Learning coding takes five years—at least. Do you really want to invest this time?
Like several other commenters have said, a better approach would be to learn coding on your own time. (Choose a language—any language will do, learn the basic from a introductory book and codecademy.com, then work on small weekend projects)
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#47Well I made the transition you talk of. Although I didn't have to go to coding bootcamp. I was a developer before I went to business school and became a PM. While I found the job of a PM interesting, I loved coding, and always kept my skills current. So when the time came, I quit to do my own startup, where I play the role of the CTO (initially the only programmer.) It's a wonderful feeling. I haven't really given up my PM function. I'm very much in charge of the product. So try this route. You may find it works better for you.
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#48No, you're not crazy. But if you desire to learn how to code and you're surrounded by top talent coders, why should you go for a (possibly mediocre) coding bootcamp?
Maybe do the bootcamp to get started, but keep your job and the opportunity it gives you to meet other great developers and learn from them.
My recommendation is: 1. learn the basics however you prefer, 2. study open source code, 3. build something medium-size that you can use, either home or work. If you're very good & lucky this may be your next gig. If not, you'll be a PM with coding skills, which usually is a pleasure to work with from a dev perspective.
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#49[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: I will quit my job as a PM to join a coding bootcamp. Am I crazy?
#50A coding bootcamp is fine, but it won't get you much closer to doing block chain or deep learning work. The analogy is you wouldn't necessarily take the Olive Garden line cook training class if you wanted to be a French chef. Sure, it won't hurt to learn how to use a knife and it might be a decent Step 0, but it won't get you much of the way towards your goal. You should really consider a more in-depth CS education,…
My uninformed opinion on bootcamps here is that they are probably a good way to learn about finishing a project (something which CS is poor at). Deep learning or blockchains are cool, but if you can't finish something then you aren't going to make something cool (even just cool to you), and without that it's hard to keep going with self-learning.