I think/am hoping that as web assembly becomes better defined, that JavaScript becomes less necessary on the front end, and with JS not as required, people won't choose JS on the back end either.
Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
41–50 of 56 posts
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#42PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…
NodeJS has an advantage on very lean teams where you need a front-end that's not hideous and a backend of some sort, NodeJS makes it easier to find a single person who can do all the programming on that project. It's not a technical win, but it is a business win.
Biggest myth I have ever heared. Only because someone can write frontend JS, doesn't mean he can understand backend logic and actually write proper backend code. Also, if you are a 1-2 person team and using a frontend JS MVC framework in 95% of all cases you are doing it wrong.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#43PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…
I am working currently as a Senior dev on a team of 8 developers. We use NodeJS6 for the backend and its a great language wot work with. I've never been so productive. There are some drawbacks (weird type system, you need disciplined programmers, etc...) but the overall experience is great. We have a microservice architecture, where every service is on average maybe max 700 lines or so and honestly, Node works great there. You don't have to worry about threads etc.. The event system simplifies all this tremendously. You have millions of library for every flavour. So Microservices in Node are a joy.
I wouldn't do a monolith in Node though... But actually, I'd never do a monolith again :-)
So I definitely don't see it as a joke. Before that I did C#, Clojure, Java, Python, C++ and Ruby jobs and honestly, I think Node is up until now my best experience. In terms of speed, joy and community. The latter is GREAT(!). I love js confs, so much different people, zero hostility, open minded. Great!
Also JS allows you to write very nice code. Look at libraries like Ramda, or the fantasy-land movement. You can write wonderful code in it if you know how to do it. ES6 really helps here. I wouldn't like to write code anymore in ES5 or earlier to be honest...
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
NodeJS has an advantage on very lean teams where you need a front-end that's not hideous and a backend of some sort, NodeJS makes it easier to find a single person who can do all the programming on that project. It's not a technical win, but it is a business win.
Biggest myth I have ever heared. Only because someone can write frontend JS, doesn't mean he can understand backend logic and actually write proper backend code. Also, if you are a 1-2 person team and using a frontend JS MVC framework in 95% of all cases you are doing it wrong.
I agree. Backend and Software are two different worlds. At least if you want to get both right :-)
But!!! If you have the same language in both, its easier to check the code of the over side and derive some insights, or to eventually fix some small bug somewhere or implement a minor feature.
I experience that currently.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
NodeJS has an advantage on very lean teams where you need a front-end that's not hideous and a backend of some sort, NodeJS makes it easier to find a single person who can do all the programming on that project. It's not a technical win, but it is a business win.
Biggest myth I have ever heared. Only because someone can write frontend JS, doesn't mean he can understand backend logic and actually write proper backend code. Also, if you are a 1-2 person team and using a frontend JS MVC framework in 95% of all cases you are doing it wrong.
Not all projects require "proper backend code" whatever that means. It's not my team, but our enterprise/analytics dashboard is written in Node; we've been fine with 2 developers on that team for 3 years. It doesn't receive a tonne of traffic since it's largely just interactive reports for our users and the actually complicated parts are handled by a separate team that makes sure the relevant data lives in a Druid database that the dashboard team can query.
The whole product started as a NodeJS+MongoDB app, which was a disaster at scaling to the billions of requests a day we handle and we've replaced it everywhere except the dashboard, but there is absolutely no incentive for replacing it there and when something truly tricky comes up there is support in the rest of the org for them; of course nothing stops them from writing a hair ball besides themselves, but that's always the case.
You don't necessarily need to find someone who is only good at frontend code and throw them into a backend project, but if you find someone comfortable with Node, they're probably in that position because they also know how to do frontend, and once you have at least one senior Node developer, you can teach your frontend-only developers.
Maybe I just don't have a good sense for the web developer market and there are a lot of backend+frontend people who are not Node developers, but my intuition tells me that's not the case.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
The killer feature (and only reason I use it) is being able to render the same templates with the same data on the server (isomorphic/universal/whatever). The result is a webpage that can do lightening-fast transitions client-side without breaking the back button.
For what it's worth, ReactJS.NET does server side rendering, so you can have a .NET backend. https://reactjs.net/guides/server-side-rendering.html
In most cases, it's probably still easier to use C#, but JScript has always been an option in ASP.Net (and classic ASP). I found that the ability to use the same code on the back-end and front-end was nice when you needed it, but those occasions were quite rare.
The code also usually required some (often significant) refactoring of the code in question to make it portable between the front-end and back-end environments. In classic ASP, this usually meant ensuring front-end code moving to the back-end was isolated from any DOM interaction and didn't use any ES5(+) features, while back-end code moving to the front-end had to be isolated from the ASP objects (Application, Server, Session, etc.). It's all stuff that seems like common sense, but wasn't rigorously applied to JScript code which only had to work on IE5 (later 6, finally 7 before the project was put out to pasture), especially since use of JavaScript on the client wasn't significant until the project's last couple of years.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#47No, front-end and back-end cultures are too different. Front-end people like things that are shiny and new, the latest framework in the latest browser and it's only got to last a year at the very most before it gets re-written again (or the company is bust). Back-end people like things that are proven and stable and don't care if it's a decade old, because they want something that will last another decade. If you try…
Is this comment satire?
Caricatured, perhaps, but the characterisation of a typical front-end developer vs. a typical back-end developer is disturbingly close to the mark. Obviously there are exceptions in both cases.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
NodeJS has an advantage on very lean teams where you need a front-end that's not hideous and a backend of some sort, NodeJS makes it easier to find a single person who can do all the programming on that project. It's not a technical win, but it is a business win.
Biggest myth I have ever heared. Only because someone can write frontend JS, doesn't mean he can understand backend logic and actually write proper backend code. Also, if you are a 1-2 person team and using a frontend JS MVC framework in 95% of all cases you are doing it wrong.
"if you are a 1-2 person team and using a frontend JS MVC framework in 95% of all cases you are doing it wrong."
You're saying having a small team makes it a bad idea to use a standard-ish library for organizing things and avoiding grunt work?
I would argue the exact opposite.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what it's worth, ReactJS.NET does server side rendering, so you can have a .NET backend. https://reactjs.net/guides/server-side-rendering.html
In most cases, it's probably still easier to use C#, but JScript has always been an option in ASP.Net (and classic ASP). I found that the ability to use the same code on the back-end and front-end was nice when you needed it, but those occasions were quite rare. The code also usually required some (often significant) refactoring of the code in question to make it portable between the front-end and back-end environmen…
IronES2015 or IronTypeScript. Interesting thought.
Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?
#50No, front-end and back-end cultures are too different. Front-end people like things that are shiny and new, the latest framework in the latest browser and it's only got to last a year at the very most before it gets re-written again (or the company is bust). Back-end people like things that are proven and stable and don't care if it's a decade old, because they want something that will last another decade. If you try…
I'd argue that frontend web dev was a pretty terrible experience until fairly recently, and that new tools and libraries make it much easier and more organized. I think the enthusiasm for the new and shiny is warranted, and I spend a portion of my current work day writing ISRs in assembly.