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Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#41

Post by brianwawok »

jkot wrote: post #13

Private offices are common, but not in the Bay - It is a form of compensation. Cash/stock is preferred form here. To get other benefits (private office, remote) look at different place. - Office space is at premium, private offices are expensive. Again look somewhere else. - Startup culture is associated with open office. Large corporations are better with this :-( - 'Extremely unproductive' is not an argument. Manag…

Worked 5 jobs in Chicago. No devs had private offices at any of them.

This is why I work from home. Amazing private office that my dog can be in.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#42

Post by manarth »

cyberferret wrote: post #25

I cannot believe that still in this day and age, there is still a belief that open offices are better for developers?? Joel Spolsky tried to set the record straight, what, about 15 years ago? For the record, I don't normally listen to music when programming - I like a quiet environment. Interruptions are a bane. I have a private office, but as soon as anyone enters - even quietly, my flow state is broken. Plus on the…

I don't think many organisations have a genuine belief that open offices are better…but it's more palatable justification than the fact that they're cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#43

Post by nathan_f77 »

At a previous company, we had an office where they built little rooms for phone calls. Some had desks with chairs, and there was one with beanbags. I ended up spending some time in those, unless someone needed to make a call (not too often). I did get tired of the open plan office after a while, but mostly it was just nice to have some variety and move around.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#44

Post by rahelzer »

Mentor Graphics has private offices. When our company was acquired by them, I thought I would really love them. But to my surprise I didn't like how it changed the culture at all.

Private offices really do make developers more insular. It discourages communication to a degree I wouldn't have thought it would.

Another aspect which might not be obvious at first is that offices come in difference sizes, so when somebody comes to your office--or you go to theirs--you both immediately know your relative positions on the pecking order.

This induces an unwelcome power dynamic. Good ideas come from everywhere, but its human nature to buy into these symbols of status. "You know how I know I'm right and you are wrong? My office (and salary) is bigger than yours." Not necessarily said in as explicit terms as those, but the effect is real and pervasive.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#45

Post by wyclif »

rahelzer wrote: post #44

Mentor Graphics has private offices. When our company was acquired by them, I thought I would really love them. But to my surprise I didn't like how it changed the culture at all. Private offices really do make developers more insular. It discourages communication to a degree I wouldn't have thought it would. Another aspect which might not be obvious at first is that offices come in difference sizes, so when somebody…

Offices-with-doors power dynamics may be unwelcome in some company cultures. But power dynamics are unavoidable. If a company has an open plan work space or bullpen, the dynamic will be expressed in some other way that might be even more unwelcome.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#46

Post by pionar »

cyberferret wrote: post #25

I cannot believe that still in this day and age, there is still a belief that open offices are better for developers?? Joel Spolsky tried to set the record straight, what, about 15 years ago? For the record, I don't normally listen to music when programming - I like a quiet environment. Interruptions are a bane. I have a private office, but as soon as anyone enters - even quietly, my flow state is broken. Plus on the…

I have a private office (I work from home), but there's a difference between open offices where EVERYONE in the company is out in one big area and a separate space for each team.

That's how a team I used to be on was arranged. There was the outside office, then what was termed the "developer cave", which was a large section of the office (closed off, with a door!) that housed 5 developers and 3 QA people all working on the same product.

That's better than private offices (it encourages collaboration), but, doesn't have most of the downsides of a traditional "open office" (having to overhear the sales guy making calls all day, and people don't just pop in to ask a question. A room full of working developers is intimidating. Best to send an email instead.).

On top of that, we had separate booths (with doors) that were kind of like phone booths, just enough space for two people, that developers would snag if they needed to focus.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#48

Post by joezydeco »

colechristensen wrote: post #24
arjunvpaul wrote: post #19

Why is wearing headphones not an option? Just curious.

Having some of the noise diminished by putting things on your ears != being alone. I'm just slightly physically uncomfortable in a large room filled with people, especially when I'm trying to focus on something. Especially when that's how I'd spend 2/3 of my waking life on work days. It's not to the level anywhere near some sort of phobia, it's just that when I'm in a big room with a lot of activity a portion of my b…

There is also a subset of coworkers that do not understand the (headphones == leave me alone) signal.

They'll come up behind you and tap you on the shoulder or, even worse, stand quietly just outside your visual focus until you break concentration and acknowledge them.

Short of police tape across your cubicle door, nothing will send them the message.

Does anyone else remember WKRP in Cincinnati?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkP9DKnOgn0

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#49

Post by jasode »

cyberferret wrote: post #25

I cannot believe that still in this day and age, there is still a belief that open offices are better for developers?? Joel Spolsky tried to set the record straight, what, about 15 years ago? For the record, I don't normally listen to music when programming - I like a quiet environment. Interruptions are a bane. I have a private office, but as soon as anyone enters - even quietly, my flow state is broken. Plus on the…

>Joel Spolsky tried to set the record straight,

Joel Spolsky may have tried but his companies (Fog Creek, Stackexchange) are not big enough nor influential enough to convince the industry.

Microsoft in 1990s was one of the few companies that deliberately provided private offices with a door for every programmer. However, that ideology later morphed into putting 2 or more developers to share one room and then relocating a large group onto open floor plans[1]. It shows that even a company that originally prided itself on private offices eventually deviated towards open offices. (They still have lots of private offices.)

As a counterpoint to offices with doors, there was billionaire Gordon Moore (CEO Intel) in 1996 without a private office.[2]

The issue is that the touted benefits of private offices are not obvious slam dunks to observers. For example, if open floor plans with their distractions kill productivity, Google (open cubicles) should have lost to Microsoft Bing. Amazon and their AWS programmers distracted by open offices should be losing to Microsoft's Azure programmers. (Of course, there are multiple other factors at play besides office layout but that may also prove that open-vs-private doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things -- i.e. it's statistical noise.)

There are no slam dunk business case studies that definitively proves that private offices produce superior business results. The narrative for private offices needs spectacular headlines of success in Harvard Business Review or Techcrunch articles about YC companies with private offices defeating every competitor. So far, the proponents like Spolsky (not big enough) and Microsoft (not considered a trendsetter in the tech world) is not enough.

[1]http://www.geekwire.com/2014/microsoft-developer-division/

[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX5g0kidk3Y&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any tech companies in the Bay Area that offer private offices?

#50

Post by tostitos1979 »

I spent most of my career in offices with doors, and was excited about being in an open office. It is definitely more social but it is ridiculously disruptive. When someone is happy or sad (e.g. when someone leaves, even from a different group), there is a pretty big disruption that kills productivity for 30 mins or more. Doors win I think.
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