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Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

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41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#41

Why would you ever say things that are untrue? You are simply a lier then. Saying "yes" even though you DONT actually know if you can make it is a lie. You are lying to your manager. Tell him that it's probably gonna be close, and other work might suffer or even that work in particular. I mean why on earth WOULDNT you tell him that? It's not like this won't come up immediately anyway when you inevitably don't finish…

Well, in principle you are right, but it sometimes goes like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#42

I seldom say no, I say "Yeh I can do that it might take so and so, I'm doing this at the moment, do you want me to put that on hold?" - if they're for the same person. If they're for different people then - "Yah I can do that, I'm doing this for fred at the moment, so have a talk to him if you like" (or to who ever else pays the bills). Seems to work. If it's a client, "I'll add it to the list and talk to (whoever's…

One twist on this that I like when "priority" is a foreign concept is "So you want me to drop so-and-so's work for yours. I'm happy to do that on one condition - anyone else can come over and ask me to drop your work for theirs."

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#43
You can say "no" without saying "no". Try this, "We can do that, but I've got a lot on my plate this week. Shall we log the task for next week or shuffle some tasks around different sprints to make room for it?"

There you go, 9 times out of 10 they will shelve the idea.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#44

I seldom say no, I say "Yeh I can do that it might take so and so, I'm doing this at the moment, do you want me to put that on hold?" - if they're for the same person. If they're for different people then - "Yah I can do that, I'm doing this for fred at the moment, so have a talk to him if you like" (or to who ever else pays the bills). Seems to work. If it's a client, "I'll add it to the list and talk to (whoever's…

Letting people know that their request will interfere with projects for others, and they need to clear it with those people, not you, is always a good idea. People tend to view their projects as more important and will always put their needs before other, especially if they are pressured by their own deadlines. You don't want to be the person that pick which project gets done first. You'll always pick the wrong one.

One weird situation I often encounter is people wanting something on a deadline, but there isn't actually enough time or circumstances have changed. It's highly unproductive when people just keep repeating that a deadline must be meet, regardless of circumstances. What I have resorted to in these cases are not saying no, but asking what they'd have me do. That often removes the expectation of magic or whatever management believes is going to intervene if you just keeps pushing.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#45
Lots of good advice here about pushing back. Be sure to do it in your own voice of course and no need for a revolution. It may be best to focus on small things and grow from there

In that vein, the BBC used to vet new hires (in an assessment) around how they would react to a colleague who kept asking for help on similar things but refused to learn how to do it themselves.

No idea if they still do this but worth thinking if you are enabling your colleagues to just dump it on you.

Ask yourself, do you completely take over? Have you tried getting them to do it by talking them through but not hands on solving it for them?

Often quicker a couple of times to just take over but long term they'll be reliant on you and you'll be stuck helping them solve that problem time after time.

Harder to do that with tasks from a manager or similar, but I've found it helps to talk through what you'd have to do, what you'd have to drop and problems you see coming. You'll probably still have to do it but you can make explicit what will move down your pecking order.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#46

Get a todo list, do tasks in order of importance; if someone comes in and asks you something, say "yes, but" and give it a place in your list. Don't leave tasks half-finished before starting the next, if you can finish them at least.

I'm a solo developer in a non-tech group and I'm all about this. I add every idea to the issue tracking system. I prioritize based on consensus, feasibility, and alignment with our group's strategy. Half the ideas won't ever materialize and that's okay, because the other half are more important.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#47
post #6

I just said no one day. It got easier the day after that, and easier still the day after that.

This is it simply, part of growing up. Although I might clarify, you could say yes until you plate is full, then you say, "sorry, I'm booked until…"

I actually start saying "no" well before my plate is full. Optionality is good, otherwise sometimes you have to say no even though you would very much like to say yes.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#48

OT but I'd be more curious to know how you handle things when you've done it "right". Said yes to this, no to that. You're booked with an abundance of time. Then you hit a snag in a project and what you thought was going to take a few days ends up taking weeks. Then more weeks because of more unforseen issues. Sure you could've researched things to death from the start but there were hidden gremlins you couldn't have…

Report, report, report. Who are you delivering the final product to? Email that person, tell that person during stand-up, "I discovered issue X in my project today, this pushes back my deadline by Y hours/days/weeks/months/millennia." You don't HAVE to manage the entire fallout, necessarily, right away, but if you start raising alarm bells early, you can harness your team to assist in adapting! :)

The other thing? CUT. Can't have feature completed by next week? What are the parameters? Could you do a mock-up or a skeleton of it and have it serve the immediate, urgent purpose, while potentially still moving you towards final feature nirvana? Better phrased: you've hit a snag, you can't deliver what you said, on the deadline that you said- especially if you fear that manager you'll be reporting to, tell him/her what you CAN still deliver on that timetable. "What CAN you deliver, then?" is almost certainly on someone in your chain of command's mind, desperately begging for an answer! :)

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#49

A client who knew nothing about programming whatsoever, much less the intricacies of programming languages, wanted my brother and I to build the stupid app they wanted in Ruby on Rails. We explained to them we don't know Ruby on Rails and doing it in that language would take us 4x longer because we'd have to learn both a language and framework as we were building the app. "Nope, it has to be Ruby on Rails. Oh, and so…

Perfectly reasonable for a client to dictate the technology they want a product built in. But yeah silly to engage a developer who is inexperienced in it.

Re: Ask HN: Developers – How did you learn to say NO?

#50
You dont say No.

You say Yes I can but first need to be finished this and that.

Then say: If you feel your task has priority let me talk to my supervisor 1st.

You will be yes man, expert and your boss will know u r busy.

Noone will feel bad about your attitude. Try it.

Martin

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