Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some offer them; I do not choose to use one.
Just as you can choose not to participate in a wellness program.
My employer isn't trying to cram the GPS system down my throat
Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
41–50 of 50 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#42If you look a little deeper, the foundation of the concept of "Wellness Programs" is to raise all rates paid by employees across the board, then provide discounts for behaviors that are approved (basically sharing PMI data with a 3rd party). In the US this is because - to my understanding - laws prevent insurance companies and companies from 'discriminating' in their pricing. As in, they can't penalize most people fo…
Thanks for the insight. I think you bring a very good perspective to this. Although I am not very sure, what you really mean by saying "a lot of lifestyle changes needed to promote genuine health aren't really incorporated"...do you mean the employers don't promote them? Or the incentives you are relating to don't fall under the "wellness program" benefits in general to receive a credit/discount (from the standpoint…
A genuine wellness program would, for instance, give employees discounts on commercial fitness gym memberships or certain categories of foods, offer compensatory time off for hours worked in excess of 40 in any given week, sponsor moderated team obesity reduction contests, sponsor smoking cessation support efforts, sponsor athletic clubs and events for employees, give vitamin D reminders throughout the cold, dark winter months, etc.
The typical "wellness program" gives you a $X discount over the plan year in exchange for a 3rd-party call center company to collect your health information and nag you to not be so unhealthy over the phone at regular intervals. They have to tiptoe around ADA and anti-discrimination laws. The insurance discount is wholly insufficient to pay for any measure that would genuinely impact health. Given the choice between giving employees a direct $120 a year benefit for gym membership and splitting $50 discount to the employee and $70 expense to a professional call center nag, the group insurer invariably picks the latter.
You see, if you just give away the fitness gym membership, there's no leverage to make the employee actually go there and work out.
My current company invites people to get free blood pressure checks from staff of the local hospital system. I am not fooled by this. This is not motivated by concern for my health, but as a means to monitor the blood pressure of employees who already feel they must do so. The measurement is free, during business hours. Any intervention that might improve health, such as counseling or medication, has to come from the employee's own pocket, on their own time.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#43If you look a little deeper, the foundation of the concept of "Wellness Programs" is to raise all rates paid by employees across the board, then provide discounts for behaviors that are approved (basically sharing PMI data with a 3rd party). In the US this is because - to my understanding - laws prevent insurance companies and companies from 'discriminating' in their pricing. As in, they can't penalize most people fo…
Your understanding is incorrect, actually. HMOs do charge higher insurance rates for people who are less healthy on the aggregate. You are using the word, "penalize," but it has nothing to do with penalties, it has to do with market offerings, as HMOs offer insurance to employers based upon the risk pools. If we use your word, "penalty," to mean "higher pricing," - then less healthy workforces get penalized with higher rates for being unhealthy, sort of like group punishment. Of course using the word penalty or punishment makes it sound like there is some kind of unfair aggressor involved, like a parent punishing their kid for having cancer. In reality it's a cold, heartless, unfeeling robot assigning values based upon what it predicts will happen. See my other response for more explanation on that.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#44It's a privacy invasion scam. At a previous employer they wanted to track our steps and our GPS location and also wanted us to record every glass of water we drink. It's a disgusting ruse. I don't care if they were going to give me $300/yr, my privacy is worth more than that.
Your employer does not have access to this data. They buy the wellness site from other companies. These companies are not allowed to provide them with data such as gps location.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Orthogonal issue but here is what I think -- While I agree that privacy is of great concern, I do think the way to approach this would be with more frequent health checkups. Our body is the best marker at the end of the day to measure our healthiness. Everything else doesn't matter, which is also the reason the allure of wearables is wearing out. (It's great, but what do you do now that you have all this data that yo…
They also gave "points" in this reward system for recording visits to doctor, dentist, proving you had an annual physical, etc. I'm sorry but while it's great to encourage that behavior it's not my employer's not my insurance company's business to know these details about my healthcare.
Well, it surely is a health insurer's 'business' to know about your health-related data. Whether you are willing to provide access, presumably for a better rate, is another question.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#46If you look a little deeper, the foundation of the concept of "Wellness Programs" is to raise all rates paid by employees across the board, then provide discounts for behaviors that are approved (basically sharing PMI data with a 3rd party). In the US this is because - to my understanding - laws prevent insurance companies and companies from 'discriminating' in their pricing. As in, they can't penalize most people fo…
Your understanding is incorrect, actually. HMOs do charge higher insurance rates for people who are less healthy on the aggregate. You are using the word, "penalize," but it has nothing to do with penalties, it has to do with market offerings, as HMOs offer insurance to employers based upon the risk pools. If we use your word, "penalty," to mean "higher pricing," - then less healthy workforces get penalized with high…
OP is talking on an individual person level, not a group level. "Wellness programs" exist to penalize individuals doing things that make the group's price more expensive.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#47I put this in the same category as that snooping device insurance companies want people to install in their cars (tracks speed, breaking, etc). It's optional till it's not.
To put it another way, it's only optional till its prohibitively expensive to maintain your privacy.
I think both of these should be banned at the Federal level before they become too pervasive. The slope is too slippery.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your understanding is incorrect, actually. HMOs do charge higher insurance rates for people who are less healthy on the aggregate. You are using the word, "penalize," but it has nothing to do with penalties, it has to do with market offerings, as HMOs offer insurance to employers based upon the risk pools. If we use your word, "penalty," to mean "higher pricing," - then less healthy workforces get penalized with high…
OP is talking on an individual person level, not a group level. "Wellness programs" exist to penalize individuals doing things that make the group's price more expensive.
If you read my other comment on this thread, you will understand more about where I'm coming from. Sorry...I didn't want to repeat a huge wall of text.
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also gave "points" in this reward system for recording visits to doctor, dentist, proving you had an annual physical, etc. I'm sorry but while it's great to encourage that behavior it's not my employer's not my insurance company's business to know these details about my healthcare.
Well, it surely is a health insurer's 'business' to know about your health-related data. Whether you are willing to provide access, presumably for a better rate, is another question.
It is in their interest to snoop on your personal life and habits, but it's not their right
Re: Ask HN: Do wellness incentives help employers save money on taxes and insurance?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the insight. I think you bring a very good perspective to this. Although I am not very sure, what you really mean by saying "a lot of lifestyle changes needed to promote genuine health aren't really incorporated"...do you mean the employers don't promote them? Or the incentives you are relating to don't fall under the "wellness program" benefits in general to receive a credit/discount (from the standpoint…
A genuine wellness program would, for instance, give employees discounts on commercial fitness gym memberships or certain categories of foods, offer compensatory time off for hours worked in excess of 40 in any given week, sponsor moderated team obesity reduction contests, sponsor smoking cessation support efforts, sponsor athletic clubs and events for employees, give vitamin D reminders throughout the cold, dark win…
Thanks for going into detail, as this is my view - developed over several instances of observing such programs, and, in actuality, having worked in a back-office support role for a firm that actually sold these programs. Your write up is essentially what I was alluding to, and I appreciate you sharing your perspective so I don't feel, well, uselessly paranoid or underwhelmed by the "offer" in the grand scheme of things. Now that you mention it, I wonder if dropping some information on the 'Wellness Caller' about my ADA-protected disability and then asking if they're HIPAA compliant would be a fun little wrinkle to explore...