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Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

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Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#41
post #22
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that concise implementations (e.g. in a one liner) are often a complete bitch to debug when someone else comes back to it to fix a problem years later. It is much more difficult to debug and fix existing code than develop it from scratch. Hence, if you found the problem hard to code in the first place, then when you come to debug it again later you've just screwed your future self.

The problem with people writing too concise code is with their motivation not with their abilities - and so it is probably impossible to test (at least directly), because on the test they would have the motivation to do the right thing.

No. If someone has to be "motivated" to write clear code, especially given that these tests are supposed to lead to jobs, then I would have to question their abilities. Writing clear code is an ability of itself.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#42
post #2

I think HackerRank is a great platform for challenges but I personally believe it only shows a small part of your skill set. I am a developer myself but also have hired a lot of engineers in my career. I believe that looking at existing projects you've done on Github gives a much better overview of your coding style, knowledge and your ability to learn. It also exposes some of the biases I know that we have in our ow…

From experience it's very hard to know how a candidate will perform when hired, irrespective of the hiring process. A better recruiting model IMO would be to recruit people on short-term contracts (e.g. 6 months) with the contractual agreement that the worker will transition to a permanent job at the end of the 6 months providing their performance is inline with expectation. I do use code exercises myself, but it's n…

"A better recruiting model IMO would be to recruit people on short-term contracts (e.g. 6 months) with the contractual agreement that the worker will transition to a permanent job at the end of the 6 months providing their performance is inline with expectation."

That already exists. And it leads to abuse of those contract workers, because they think that if they bust themselves just a little bit more, they'll have that carrot (the job). But they're so burnt out at the end of the contract period, and the employer inevitably says "No", and then brings in a new class of fresh faced hopefuls.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#43
post #13
post #3

In my opinion they test the wrong things for the majority of software developers. Most people who write code don't need the ability to solve especially hard algorithmic problems. Ranking solutions to hard problems is probably useful if you're Google but there aren't many Googles out there. We like to think that we're solving hard problems (and actually, on HN, we're more likely to be), but most companies aren't. A la…

You are right that the biggest part of the job is easy - but testing the easy parts is useless - all programmers would pass it. A test must be hard in some way if it is to filter people. Disclaimer: I have a stake in https://codility.com/

you would be surprised how many "senior developers" I've worked with who can't write a decent CRUD app...

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#44
post #32
post #16

I've been on both sides of HackerRank. I helped develop/configure a HackerRank test for candidates for my team, and recently I've taken a HackerRank test while applying for a position at another company. HackerRank is just a tool. Its effectiveness depends on how well the company interviewing candidates configures it. I think algorithmic questions are the most popular, but it's completely configurable; you can have i…

But what is HR's "rank"? It seems your submitted code either passes the test cases, or it doesn't, so the score is boolean? Or is the time spent writing it, or the number of submissions, factored in to calculate a more precise score?

The score is based entirely on the number of testcases you pass. If the company in question wants to look at other metrics, they need to do it manually.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#45

I haven't used HackerRank, but got experience with similar product Codility ( https://codility.com/ ). My experience: 1. Works great if engineers apply to you, much less if you try to poach a engineer from great company. 2. Great resumes or credentials sometimes don't correlate with great performance. Especially there are hidden self-trained engineers, who can build great products, but never had CS degree or worked i…

Point no2. The people that built great products and have good cv's don't have great performance? And why would you want to filter out great product builders because they don't have a CS degree or worked in a big company before?

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#46
I think these tools underestimate the impact stress has on coders. I would dare to say more than 30% of ability can be impacted. Since coders rarely write code under extreme stress unless they work for stock market apps I don't see the point of having such a huge confounder.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#47

I haven't used HackerRank, but got experience with similar product Codility ( https://codility.com/ ). My experience: 1. Works great if engineers apply to you, much less if you try to poach a engineer from great company. 2. Great resumes or credentials sometimes don't correlate with great performance. Especially there are hidden self-trained engineers, who can build great products, but never had CS degree or worked i…

Point no2. The people that built great products and have good cv's don't have great performance? And why would you want to filter out great product builders because they don't have a CS degree or worked in a big company before?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#48
post #41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with people writing too concise code is with their motivation not with their abilities - and so it is probably impossible to test (at least directly), because on the test they would have the motivation to do the right thing.

No. If someone has to be "motivated" to write clear code, especially given that these tests are supposed to lead to jobs, then I would have to question their abilities. Writing clear code is an ability of itself.

The point was about code 'too concise' - this is different from 'not clear'.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#49

I haven't used HackerRank, but got experience with similar product Codility ( https://codility.com/ ). My experience: 1. Works great if engineers apply to you, much less if you try to poach a engineer from great company. 2. Great resumes or credentials sometimes don't correlate with great performance. Especially there are hidden self-trained engineers, who can build great products, but never had CS degree or worked i…

Sorry but usually what happens is that a hackerhank / codility tests is just the first filter. You still have a full day of technical interviews in the company office afterwards..

Have been interviewing recently and most of the process have 3-4 steps..

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