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Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#41
Relational XPath Map (rxm) provides a syntactically terse domain-specific language (DSL) to query relational databases and generate structured documents.

https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/rxm/

https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/rxm/wiki/Discussion

Currently generates SQL code from a DSL, which can be run against a database to produce an XML document.

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#42

Me. I'm working on Full Metal Jacket, a strongly-typed, visual, pure dataflow language ( http://web.onetel.com/~hibou/fmj/FMJ.html ) with its own IDE. Things have advanced a fair bit since I wrote those pages, and published the recent paper, so I'll add to the tutorials very soon, and announce this in Hacker News. Type definition, macros, and a few other things have been added to the language. .303 shared-source rele…

Wow, that's oddly similar to an idea I've been playing with.

Who do you see as the core users of these tools?

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#43

Program synthesis: see work by Ras Bodik's team at Berkeley (now UW) and descendants in Armando's MIT team and Sumit Gulwani's MSR team. As a concrete examples making industry waves, see Excel's new Flashfill and Trifacta ETL wrangling product. Underneath, these use search (ML, SMT, ...) to allow non-tradiotional & sloppy coding: fill in the blanks, program by demonstration, etc.

For more on program synthesis and verification see also the Leon system by Viktor Kuncak et al.[1]

[1] http://lara.epfl.ch/w/

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#44

This is a really broad question, about on par with asking "which fashion houses are putting out daring material and what will Dior be making that's popular 30 years from now". Software is just like any other cargo-cult industry where trends rise and fall almost like clockwork. From Rails, to Angular, to React. RE: People/Groups who are researching 'new approaches to programming' - you have the typical universities pu…

I think you may have lost the forest for the trees. For as broad of a question as this, the different web frameworks you listed are all just that - web frameworks. That is just one area of programming, and the differences between each framework are trivial in a multi-decade view of things. What is more interesting is your points towards hardware limitations, and that seems like more of an area in which such a questio…

One interesting prophecy I read recently is that the emergence and widespread availability of NVRAM (non-volatile RAM) could shift the bottleneck in most web applications from the disk to the CPU. One implication of this is that the relative inefficiency of current high-level web programming languages could see a shift toward more efficient languages (e.g. Rust?).

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#45
post #42

Me. I'm working on Full Metal Jacket, a strongly-typed, visual, pure dataflow language ( http://web.onetel.com/~hibou/fmj/FMJ.html ) with its own IDE. Things have advanced a fair bit since I wrote those pages, and published the recent paper, so I'll add to the tutorials very soon, and announce this in Hacker News. Type definition, macros, and a few other things have been added to the language. .303 shared-source rele…

Wow, that's oddly similar to an idea I've been playing with. Who do you see as the core users of these tools?

A lot of people creating multimedia works use visual programming languages that have dataflow models.

Some that are fairly mature projects:

vvvv - https://vvvv.org/

Puredata - https://cycling74.com/products/max/

Max MSP - https://puredata.info/

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#46
post #37

I'm working in a relational language like http://www.try-alf.org/blog/2013-10-21-relations-as-first-cl... . However a noob in building a language ;) I have learn a lot of stuff. For example, columnar-stores provide some nice oportunities to manage data in-memory + compress values in columns. Sorting, joining & selecting on multiple-arrays that are a necessity for OLAP queries translate well to the need of normal prog…

Also check out datalog.

Datomic is a database that uses it as its query language -- it is really nice to work with.

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#47
post #45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's oddly similar to an idea I've been playing with. Who do you see as the core users of these tools?

A lot of people creating multimedia works use visual programming languages that have dataflow models. Some that are fairly mature projects: vvvv - https://vvvv.org/ Puredata - https://cycling74.com/products/max/ Max MSP - https://puredata.info/

Am I wrong to think about the "graphical" aspect of visual programming languages as another layer of abstraction? If this is the case, doesn't that take some power away from these users, in the sense that their capabilities are limited to the abstractions/interface given to them by the language's developers?

Not exactly trying to question whether it's a good/bad thing (as I'm aware that for many creators this might be exactly what they need), just trying to understand.

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#48
We're working on http://tonicdev.com . You can read a bit about it here http://blog.tonicdev.com/2015/09/10/time-traveling-in-node.j... or just try it yourself.

Some guiding principles:

1. So much of what hinders programmers is that the friction to using existing solutions is so high that they choose to redo the work themselves. In Tonic we've made every package for javascript immediately available (over 200,000), so that you can focus on putting existing pieces together. We keep adding them as they come in immediately, as well as making notebooks accessible to each other. Its like you have access to the global library.

2. There shouldn't be any snippet of code online that isn't runnable. Every example you read on the internet should be immediately runnable (regardless of whether it require binary packages or what have you). The difference in understanding when you can tweak an example and see what happens vs just cursory reading over it and thinking you get it is huge. Tonic embeds allows this: https://tonicdev.com/docs/embed

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#49
I am. I am working on a new programming language designed for the next generations. The language re-imagines the role of the compiler from being a monolithic static blackbox that converts source to executable, into being an open dynamic system the manages the language syntax and compilation process, but leaves the final syntax and actual compilation to hot pluggable libraries. Why? To make the language dynamically upgradable, and on a per-project basis. This is the only way to make a language future-proof. More details: http://alusus.net http://alusus.net/overview P.S. the project is still at a very early stage, but a proof of concept is there.

Re: Ask HN: Which people and groups are researching new approaches to programming?

#50

This is a really broad question, about on par with asking "which fashion houses are putting out daring material and what will Dior be making that's popular 30 years from now". Software is just like any other cargo-cult industry where trends rise and fall almost like clockwork. From Rails, to Angular, to React. RE: People/Groups who are researching 'new approaches to programming' - you have the typical universities pu…

> From Rails, to Angular, to React. That's where you lost me. ;) (It's sort of like a physicist claiming force, mass and momentum to be the hottest new research areas for the coming 30 years...)

He might mean MVC by Rails which is a widely used paradigm in Web Development (Django, Laravel, etc.) And two-way bindings for a frontend framework as brought along by Angular or the concept of using a Virtual DOM to improve DOM performance as pioneered by React.

There are maybe tons more but each of these did have a massive impact in their respective communities.

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