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Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

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Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#41
It might be a good idea to regularly confront him with the things he says about other employees (in a subtle way), in front of those other employees, and thereby creating an uncomfortable situation that he has to handle.

By doing so other employees will then become to know what you already know, and some solution is more likely to arise.

In any case, before this thing starts impacting your mood outside of work, definitely leave the company. (i have been in the exact same situation and regret not leaving that company much earlier.)

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#42
post #22

well, this is what helped when I faced a similar siutation : 1. I took the guy who offended me to an informal cup of coffee and discussed about the situation. 2. Instead of confronting him, I explained my perspective and sought out his guidance to help me out. It did help me in two ways : 1. The other person realized that I'm another human being just like him and not some "ideal code cranking robot" that he expected…

That might work some of the time, but more often than not this just makes you a target because you threaten that person's sense of self-worth.

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#43
As someone who is often perceived to be too negative or worse (although I've improved a lot over the years), I can tell you that in terms of the options you're considering, the best solution is different, but does involve #1.

First, recognize that not everyone thinks the same, or has the same style. Consider that just like his attitude upsets you, your (or your coworkers) attitudes may be upsetting him. This is key to coming up with a solution that works for everyone.

Second, understand that this is probably more venting than anything. The guy is getting frustrated and knows he can't (and shouldn't) take it out on people he sees as having messed up. This doesn't make it right, but consider that the guy is trying not to be toxic.

Third, the guy needs regular feedback about this. --You mention that when your manager talks to him, things improve for a time. This ties into my second point, that the guy is actually trying. You may or may not be in a position where he'll listen to you. I'd recommend trying to talk to him about this directly. When you do this, don't beat around the bush. --Tell him that you know he's good at what he does, but that the constant complaining about coworkers makes it hard for you and others to work with him. I really recommend that you do this. Or if not you, the coworker who he seems to have the most respect for - it'll often mean more coming from a coworker than a manager.

Fourth, ask your manager to follow up regularly. --He needs to help keep reinforcing the attitude change so that the guy doesn't fall back into old habits.

Finally, consider offering the guy a chance to vent over lunch once a week or so away from the office. --This helps give him a chance to get things off his chest, but to do it somewhere that it doesn't hurt others. And it might give you a chance to give him some insights of your own about the people he complains about.

This guy may never be your ideal coworker, but you can probably help find the middle ground that makes things better for everyone.

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#44
I've been in this situation where I was the "jerk".

I've only changed when I pushed for a promotion and another manager blocked it based on my behavior. When I asked people who I knew could have influenced my promotion to not happen, she just said "I blocked it because despite being by far the strongest technically, your behavior negates most, if not all, the value you can add to the team." The next week, she was going to my manager telling him he _has_ to promote me.

She's probably one of the person who had the best impact on my career so far (I was 31, so my career was closer to the beginning than to its end.

Another person that was extremely helpful in the same period of time was a coworker who joined as a tech lead 2 years before my promotion got rejected. His title was above mine even though I was technically stronger than him. He had no problem acknowledging it but also that his people skills were putting mine to shame. We had the most honest discussions about both skill-sets and while we were brutal with each other more often than not we became very good friend. I'm a bit frustrated by the fact that I don't think he got as much out of our relationship than I did, but I think it was more coming from his own shame than from my behavior.

A third was a person out of work that had been classified as "gifted" as a kid. He used to introduce me as a "genius" to people around me. I hated that but it got me thinking.

Anyway, coming from the other side, there were a couple of things driving my judgement :

- I thought I was normal and that anyone not performing to my level was just stupid. And that was making me angry towards others. The third person made me realize that maybe I wasn't normal (sorry if that sounds very pretentious), which means others are not stupid. They're actually quite smart, just not the same way I am. And my responsibility is to help them gain the insight I have, granted they want to.

- I didn't feel recognized enough. The 1st person made it brutally obvious that people saw what I could do and the only reason why they couldn't let me know what they saw was because I didn't let them. I was trying to prove myself all the time through the wrong behaviors, which just became an infinite loop of mutual deception.

- I felt lonely and frustrated. The 2nd person made me aware of my own shortcomings and also offered me both a mentor and a mentee with which I could share insight, transfer knowledge and ask questions, expecting nothing but the cold harsh truth.

If this colleague is the only thing that would drive your change of job, I would take that as a last resort option. You should not have to leave a job you are happy/content about because of a single person, so I'll take 4 out of the equation.

As said by other comments, going to HR is a waste of time. Nothing to gain there IMO. It's a human relationship issue that won't be solved by someone you've never seen around and that basically considers all of you as a liability. (Not all of HR is like that, but that's a big part of their job)

I think going to your manager is not a bad idea. if you come to him with a "I feel like" rather than a "it's his fault" approach, it should at least get him thinking. "I feel like XX is unapproachable/angry at others/aggressive all the time and I'm not sure howto approach him and make him an ally and learn from him". It's his job to advise you, to ask around and to advise this person if the feeling you have is shared by your other colleagues. If he breaks confidentiality and that backfires on you, I'd suggest changing managers. You cannot trust him with your career.

Go above your manager only if you are closer to your n+2 than to your manager. There's only so much he will be able to do without engaging your manager in the loop.

Try "confronting" him. Not so much in an aggressive way, but by using your soft skills. Praise him a bit for the things he really is better at you than you are. Learn from him. Don't hesitate to ask him for his opinion/advice/how he got there. And if you can build a connection, tell him about his own shortcomings in the areas where you are better than him. If there's no such area, use him to learn where he's better at than you are. You might be able to learn what he seems to know without having to put all the effort he put in it rather than his social skills. He will probably sound like an insufferable jerk from time to time, but what you'll get out of him might be worth thousand times the 30 minutes of jerkiness and self satisfaction you had to suffer through.

Good luck. I still feel bad about my past behavior but I've grown so much since then that I can only be thankful to all the people who had to suffered through this coming from me.

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#45

To sum up the situation, you have a co-worker that you can't work well with because of their behaviour. Your manager is aware of the situation and tried, but failed to get the co-worker to change their behaviour. To make life easy for you, I'll lay out your options: - Go to your manager with a plan for improving the co-worker's behaviour. Any other conversation about it will be pointless because the manager has shown…

Interesting, how do you engineer termination? (I imagine one must discover ways to raise all sorts of costs so it's eventually worth it for them to be gone.)

It's not hard to get people to leave voluntarily -- especially if they are technically competent. Management can easily do it by simply underpaying. Eventually the person will find a better paying job. If you want to get rid of someone and you are not in management, then just imagine all the crap things people have done to you in the past that made you want to quit. It's not hard.

Of course in true Machievillian fashion, I don't actually recommend this. It's the type of stuff that makes teams dysfunctional. One of the things that makes this all difficult is the question, "Who is the asshole who is making this project so difficult to work on?" Nobody answers with "Me". Engaging in petty politics to force people out is what makes you the asshole -- even if you are doing it to get rid of a different asshole.

Choosing to help the other guy, even if you think you have almost no chance of success, is what makes you the good guy. The problem is... you have almost no chance of success, the asshole probably won't thank you, and they will actually probably try to get you fired. Which is why sitting in your cubicle minding your own business is really attractive. But, of course, that just enables the asshole.

Leaving abdicates responsibility and leaves your mates with one less ally.

It's the Kobayashi Maru scenario :-) There is no right answer. It is simply a test of character.

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#47
Your coworker's behavior is extreme, but your response shouldn't be. It is not your job to manage your coworker's interactions with others, and your manager already seems aware of the situation. Instead you have a responsibility to yourself as well as your team. You should empower yourself to act on your beliefs. It's telling that none of your five options include speaking to your coworker or trying to enact any change yourself.

If, for example, your coworker begins to belittle someone else once they leave the room, you could say something like: "I don't think that null-reference exception makes them an idiot, but that's why we have code review," or "...perhaps we should have code review," or "...perhaps you could show them how you have handled a similar problem in your code, so we could learn from it."

When you interact with your coworker, use professionalism as a tool: keep the topic relevant to business and remain as unemotional as possible. If you start to become emotional or if your coworker becomes emotional slow down what you are saying to give yourself time. You can also repeat what he or she is saying, in order to confirm or mirror it.

If you keep it professional no one is going to blame you. Obviously you can get away with much worse, but you need to indicate to this person that it's not ok to talk that way around you. If you're feeling that way and your manager is feeling that way, then other people probably are. If you act professionally, you will give your coworker a dignified way of changing their behavior. Everyone, especially management, will want to avoid drama; but that doesn't mean you should let this person do whatever he or she wants. Right now you're enabling that behavior.

Finally, you should think very carefully about leaving your job because of one other person. That is a major life decision you are making, all because of one jackass. What are you going to do at the next job if you don't like someone? I would try to at least exert some influence yourself before changing your entire work life.

Re: Ask HN: Dealing with a Toxic Co-Worker

#49
I had a similar experience.

Turned out the offending co-worker just favored bluntness over politeness and was more than happy to discover I was able to discuss with him over concepts and not over how those concepts he expressed.

The two of us never had a problem since.

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