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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#391

Post by jen20 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #388
jws wrote: post #60

I married into toaster moguls. When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. And this was for a company where all the knowledge, equipment, and facilities had beed paid for many decades before. (They invented the electric pop-up toaster for certain definitions of electric pop-up toaster.) Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an a…

Your inlaws had the best information in '97 and wealth of knowledge about specific products but the right entrepreneur might see it differently these days. (e.g. your inlaws could sell out and get into another business because their brand still had value) I went to Best Buy to buy a microwave oven last weekend and noticed that all the microwaves: (a) had a Proposition 65 label (see https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net…

There was an interesting segment on the Accidental Tech Podcast [1] recently about microwaves, I did not realise that there were effectively only a couple of actual microwave units on the market and everything else is brand wrapping around it.

I replaced my need for a toaster recently with a Breville Joule oven, and am quite impressed, I'd definitely buy one of their microwaves if I ever needed one.

[1]: https://atp.fm/560

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#392

Post by jen20 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #255
bigfudge wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I don’t want random delay incendiary devices either, I do have some sympathy with OP. The net effect of all regulations like this means large classes of business are not feasible unless you have substantial capital. And availability of capital for good ideas is not at all evenly distributed in our society (the UK at least). This is just one more way that we are going to entrench low social mobility. Note als…

> Note also, it’s not just electronics regs that act in this way - our societies have become much more regulated and rule bound in my life time. Often things for good reason. After WW2 we were in a high-trust, low-barrier society state across the Western world [1]. You could leave your door unlocked and no one would come and rob you, your children could roam free as they pleased, you could start what could become a m…

> Around / after the fall of the USSR, things took a serious nosedive all at once.

That may be when the effect was felt, but the seeds were planted much earlier than this - at least 20 years.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#393

Post by mschuster91 »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #319
mschuster91 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note also, it’s not just electronics regs that act in this way - our societies have become much more regulated and rule bound in my life time. Often things for good reason. After WW2 we were in a high-trust, low-barrier society state across the Western world [1]. You could leave your door unlocked and no one would come and rob you, your children could roam free as they pleased, you could start what could become a m…

The low trust part could mostly be a (percieved) race thing. I wont claim to understand human psychology. But I dont think thats enough to explain this. Something relevant, a lot of the houses that were allowed to be built in the 40s would be illegal now. I could probably build a decently sized small house with a garage with a cousin for 20-30k. But it would be illegal to live in. Even in the countryside... and event…

> The low trust part could mostly be a (percieved) race thing. I wont claim to understand human psychology.

Racism definitely plays a part in here ("white flight"), but it's by far not the dominant issue.

> Something relevant, a lot of the houses that were allowed to be built in the 40s would be illegal now.

Indeed, but their designs are illegal nowadays for good reasons, mostly related to fire code or structural integrity. Way too many people have literally died in their sleep in unsafe homes. Statista only goes back to 1977 for residential fire deaths, but even that shows a serious reduction of cases over the decades [1].

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/376703/us-civilian-fire-...

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#394

Post by Chaosvex »

addandsubtract wrote: post #293
Chaosvex wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, washing machines are extremely simple. The trucks, a little less so.

A washing machine spins at up to 14-16 hundred RPM, while contain weight that shifts and changes based on the water added. I wouldn't necessarily define that as "simple", either.

Yes, a couple of counterweights take care of that. Tear a washing machine down and you'll discover that there's not that much inside.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#395

Post by wvh »

I've been trying to buy a toaster for the last two months.

People seem to either get the cheapest models, or some get "the Smeg" or another expensive name brand that has the same designer product in a zillion colours.

There are a few mid-price models (like Bosch) that still seem to be manufactured "locally", but for some reason they are hard to find at the moment.

You can't compete with the stream of cheap crap from China (I'm not implying that all of those are bad; just brand labels slapped on random products). The question is if you can become "the Smeg" and have people pay extra for your name. That sort of brand recognition will take a lot of time and effort, and need to be aimed at a certain kind of customer that has both money and cares beyond the appliance's function.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#396

Post by schainks »

imp0cat wrote: post #290
schainks wrote: post #162

I love this idea and the competition is fierce from Chinese companies. Check out Robam’s combi ovens, like this one: https://robamliving.com/collections/steam-oven/products/roba... This thing can toast, steam, bake, and air fry. It is objectively good at all of those functions, and it is used every day. The only thing it doesn’t have is the ability to add custom programs, but most of the built in functions can be use…

How reliable are these things? Seems like it packs a lot heat into quite a small package.

We use ours at least 2x/day, and we are about 6 months in. It gets rid of heat well and heats up quick.

My biggest gripe is I can't turn down the volume of the beeps it makes.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#397

Post by sgarland »

arghwhat wrote: post #364
sgarland wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what is RL4? If it were just a resistor for a voltage divider, I’d think it might be labeled differently than the other three.

RL3 and RL4 are both heating elements in slot 1 - likely just one heating element with a tap somewhere - that indeed acts like a voltage divider. The power to the circuit flows from in between those heating elements, through a single rectifier (D1), through a 1W resister (R1), before being clamped to 5.1V by a zener (VZ1). The use of the heating element as a voltage divider is just to get closer to the target voltage…

Thank you, makes sense.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#398

Post by tcmart14 »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #192
tcmart14 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not there to help incumbents. New companies come up all the time to make these kinds of products. Its a barrier to entry to keep Joe dipshit who learned how to solder together two wires last night thinking he can has an overnight get rich quick scheme shoddily throwing some random components together without knowing or acknowledging what they are really doing and selling that product to some unsuspecting person t…

I believe you, but arent you suspicious of the Big Toasta superconglomerate.

No not Big Toasta, but I am highly suspicious of Big Waffle Makah. How do you make a breakfast meal that also is sort of like a desert? This is highly questionable behavior.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#399

Post by arghwhat »

sotix wrote: post #363
sgarland wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have wondered for the longest time what the BAGEL button actually did, because on my cheap toaster, it seems to do very little. Unfortunately I still have more questions after reading the schematic. SW4 (BAGEL) allows current flow through R9/LED3 (BAGEL) which raises Vbe on Q2, forward biasing it, allowing current flow through Q2, dropping Vcs. Meanwhile, power has been flowing through the main switch, with RL3/RL4…

I have a different experience than the other commentator with my toaster’s bagel button. Both sides still get heated. My bagel button makes the toasting cycle last longer than normal, which is perfect for defrosting a frozen bagel and then toasting to the setting the wheel is set to.

Is it labelled "bagel", or is it a symbol that could be interpreted? What you describe is what the "defrost" feature of the linked circuit would do.

I have certainly misinterpreted iconography completely before...

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#400

Post by layer8 »

Hackbraten wrote: post #233
floren wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.

I bought this product for my husband and he loves it!

https://youtu.be/nQpxAvjD_30?t=4s
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