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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#391
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally: Work in wireless telecom. Tower climbing contractors have shifted to hair tests for drugs because so many applicants try to evade tests, or test positive. They also regularly have issues with people who get their drivers licenses revoked for DUI, to the extent that job postings including "must have current/valid drivers license".

If I sound like an idiot, forgive me, but you mean, literally, contractors that have to physically climb towers, right?

Yes, the people who do the physical installation and maintenance of antennas and lighting on cellular towers, for the most part. Also repair/maintenance for mobile radio systems (public safety), AM/FM radio, etc.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#392
Non-software engineer - don't use any drugs, no idea if any of my coworkers do. Probably not... my job environments have been way too stale.

I don't even drink coffee - I fall asleep regardless. Smoking weed never got me "high" or whatever that's like - I just end up with a scratchy throat. I can drink my share but don't do it on my own - and now that I rarely drink, I just get the shits even having a couple of beers.

Either I'm a really boring person, or the drug scene is way overblown.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#393
post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect an…

You shouldn't be lumping all "drugs" together. Of course technically every drug has a downside, for some it's not significant.

Basically food is just a drug too, except by definition.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#394

Yes. This is something that needs to be discussed. Almost every engineer is using some kind of stim in the morning and sedative in the evening. This can be as benign as caffeine/alcohol, but I've seen this escalate to any one of: caffeine, Provigil, cocaine, (meth)amphetamines on the front end, and alcohol, THC, Xanax and even ketamine on the backend. It's the only way to deal with the abusive hours. We used to joke…

> Bad companies, really bad ones are setup like this: you have to break the rules to get your job done.

Rule breaking seems to be incentivized in many industries. Here are someone else's observations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15894805

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#395
I think it's interesting how some drugs (including very dangerous drugs) are normalised. Alcohol, caffeine, and (with a prescription, and in some cultures, even without) amphetamines[1] are just seen as "fine". People use them dangerously, openly talk about using them, joke about using them, participate and encourage a culture of abusing them, and nobody blinks. An acquaintance of mine ended up in the hospital after abusing caffeine to try and hit a project deadline, yet how many caffeine/coffee jokes have you heard? It's a dangerous, addictive, abusable substance. Hell, I'm writing this while drinking a caffeinated beverage. It's nuts.

Conversely, research seems to suggest that modafinil is vastly safer than caffeine, non-addictive, not habit forming, doesn't build tolerances, essentially impossible to overdose from. The fact there's a coffee machine in my offices breakroom and free beer on Friday's, but not a basket of modafinil tabs[2], is one of life's mysteries. People die from alcohol (especially), amphetamines, and (to a much lesser extent) caffeine all the damn time. There are no recorded deaths due to modafinil.

[1]: By which I mean Adderall, of course. But it's still speed, with all the danger that implies. Adderall is habit forming, tolerance building, and can and has killed people.

[2]: Not suggesting that would actually be a good idea (although...), just that if we live in a world tolerant enough of dangerous drugs that we encourage the use of caffeine and alcohol, then why don't we tolerate drugs which are, at a minimum, an order of magnitude safer? (And probably more like several orders of magnitude.)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#396
post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling…

Seconded. I've chugged an energy drink on the job once, and immediately regretted it. So many people forget that programming is more about thinking than typing, and refuse to let themselves just sit (or nap) and think.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#397
post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling…

Pretty interesting! Can you share what is your favorite spaced repetition software?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logged in to upvote this. Birds of a feather flock together. I’ve personally never come across anyone who (admits) to using anything stronger than Redbull. In fact, we have some employees who don’t even drink coffee, opting for “natural” stimulants which come with less of a crash. Yerba Mate seems particularly popular these days. However, I may be in my own bubble; I’m very interested in seeing what you find!

Mate is the 'same' as coffee, in that it's just caffeine. There is some research to say that the mate derived caffeine is largely an isomer of caffeine, in that the molecule is shaped differently. This is then used to explain why mate is more potent to users without a habituation to coffee derived caffeine. However, the research is still ongoing and the isomer theory is not yet proved, AFAIK. Likely it's just a place…

Redbulls & other energy drinks have B vitamins and such that synergies with the caffeine to make the energy effect stronger. So even though your drinking 70mg of caffeine in a redbull, it feels a lot stronger.

Drinks such as coffee have a ton of caffeine in comparison. A cup of coffee has around ~200mg of caffeine, while yerba mate drinks have around ~70mg: http://guayaki.com/caffeine_meter.html

So drinking yerba mate is a lot like drinking tea as far as the caffeine experience goes.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#399
All the responses I have read here discuss illicit drugs but it would be worth trying to gather some information on prescription psychiatric drugs like SSRIs, SNRIs, and Benzos. I know a lot of people who take these drugs and they are often not even talked about as being drugs. I believe the use of these drugs isn't entirely about having a serious mental disorder and are often an indicator of people being in toxic environments that breaks them down. Doctors hand out prescriptions for these drugs like candy on Halloween.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#400
I'm a programmer. 22M. And oh boy do I love telling other people about drugs!

It started from pure taurine. It made me talkative like coffee and was in white powder form like cocaine.

Nowadays, it has come to the point that a friend of mine has started giving me a notice that once I am drunk, I don't shut up about drugs. Last time he said, in a very lightweight manner, that maybe I have a drug problem. Couple weeks later, I sent him some giddy messages, and I got a response asking am I baked again. I got upset, as I was not, I was merely having a happy moment. Then it drew upon me. I had taken modafinil that day.

I've also powered myself with caffeine, usually in the form of Red Bull and coffee. I also cut pure caffeine when I need an extra kick. I do it with a razor blade, as it looks cool. The terrible thing is, I have to remember which stack is the caffeine one and which one is modafinil. That's easier though if I'm cold, then I use pseudoephedrine, which is in capsules. The Ritalin which I have is stashed elsewhere.

I did not always use amphetamines. At one point, I consumed 60oz of coffee a day instead. Then one day the wall appeared, e.g., I crashed, and I was sent to ER. Doctors thought I have a blood clot in my heart, and I might die. That experience gave me a PTSD, to which I got opioids. The opioids are the best drug I've ever had.

Later on, a co-worker asked me whether I had thought about just moving to Adderall, which some of them have a prescription for.

I also use cannabis. I find it the best way to start the weekend. It gets my thoughts away from work and school. Some of my friends use LSD instead. For example, my roommate might lock up to his room, ask not to be disturbed. That means drugs. But, he sold a company and is in VC now. This validated substance use as a fair thing to do.

But, I've worked on two different continents. Where I am from, the Nordics, condemns brain doping. In the US, all the answers were in a pill form. Ask and get it. Here, it's a bad idea. You get in on a record, but you don't get the pills you _wanted to_. Tobacco products, snus or smoked, and alcohol, are fine of course. I also use those. Snus during work sometimes, alcohol never.

The sad thing is, and worth mentioning is that the working hours are different. I don't have to put myself on the line here to qualify for a good contractor. It's almost as people lack the ambition, but I guess that's more or less what a work-life balance means. I don't like it here.

Which brings us to the sad part. Despite comfortable life, I continue to push myself with stretch goals, which bring me back to substance use. I think I have a problem with wanting to do more than necessary. In the US, I came to my flat every day empty-headed, drank chamomile tea and went to sleep. I was mentally drained every day, but it felt like this is what my hefty paycheck is substituted off. Now I'm paid more, and if it just would suffice for me, I could bare it with coffee only.

Unfortunately, I feel like there are two phases in my working life. The first one was without amphetamines, and the next one was with them. So it is not just about working anymore, it is working without amphetamine.

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