Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#381

Post by wsy » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 7:59 PM UTC

mmirate wrote: post #226

dwaltrip wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the hundreds of thousands of years we spent as tribes of hunter gatherers. We still carry much of the social needs and behaviors formed in that landscape.

Right, and I'm saying that the landscape has changed enough that many of the behaviors and characteristics we evolved back then, are maladaptive today; just because most humans happen to have a certain trait, does not mean that others should hold that trait sacred and kowtow+mold themselves to it. There are other examples, too; ones with even fewer exceptions. Our minds and bodies both help hoard energy; that trait-s…

The fact that you engage in this discussion here seems a strong indicator to me that the landscape has not changed that much. Otherwise you would just exploit everybody around you, and not talk about it.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#382

Post by dorfsmay » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

Learning more about how to use the editor you use every day. Take notes. Review, at least monthly, and make sure you always incorporate new learnings.

Do not worry about which editor, there is something about the one you use right now that makes you using it, your best bang for the buck is to learn how to use this particular editor better. Returns will be immediate (no learning curve to learn a new one). Returns will be huge: Not learning advanced usage is literally wasting a bit of time every time you use your editor. If you work with computers (ops, dev, etc...), you spend a lot of time inside your editor.

If in six months you find your editor too limiting, or somebody convinces to use another one, so be it. The time you spent learning the current one isn't wasted, you have raised the bar to what you need from an editor, and, will learn the new one faster, because you now have advanced patterns that you need and will immediately look on how to do that with the new tool.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#383

Post by xor1 » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:03 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #285

xor1 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most brilliant and successful engineers I know don't have degrees, and they accumulated their vast CS knowledge on their own. They all dropped out of college within the first two years and started working at 19-20. Two of them now run their own software consulting businesses, one is a lead at Netflix, and one is a lead at Google. They're all a bit older than me, in their early 30s now. The younger ones -- one jus…

> Do you believe that you need to the environment, structure, and pace provided by college/university to actually learn CS, and that you're incapable of doing so on your own? For me, it was not a case of not being able to do it on my own, it was not knowing what I should know . You could probably spend years becoming an expert on C# or Java or C++ or Go or whatever just by coding in it at your own pace (or at a job)…

>As you said, I am sure some people dont need this though, and somehow just have limitless time or already somehow know exactly what they should learn next, when, and in what order and never need to ask any experienced people any questions to clear up misunderstandings or have their knowledge checked. Lucky them.

Here's what you're missing -- you still get to rub shoulders with experienced people as you work alongside them in a professional context. If they have a CS background, you get to fill in any missing gaps, whether it's hard knowledge or simply learning what you still need to learn on your own, so long as you're willing to ask and they're willing to share.

You also have the alternative of learning from experienced people without needing to be employed. Online communities containing working professionals, open source, local meetups. The latter isn't an option for everyone based on location.

If your first job doesn't have an opportunity for mentorship because you're the only dev, or the other devs are overloaded, you can still reach out to countless people who will help you for free and with no expectation of anything in return.

Open source is extremely intimidating to get into as a beginner. I'll admit I was never able to do it, and even now I feel intimidated despite having spent 3 years working professionally.

But the fact is that the option is there for anyone who wants to access it. Any person can get things like code reviews and career guidance from very smart and very experienced people if they're willing to seek it out, without having to pay them anything. You have open access to the CS knowledge that is passed down in university programs, and to people with that knowledge for when you need help.

I don't know how much longer this will be the case, but I think the trade-off in value between getting a CS degree and getting into the industry as soon as possible (and picking good work environments) is only continuing to grow, especially since employers are caring less and less about a CS degree as a hiring criteria with each passing year.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#384

Post by msvan » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:07 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #73

1. Learning Chinese characters with Anki. After a decade out of practice, I realize I would have done a lot better in my college studies if I actually studied. Wild idea, I know. One thing that prevented me from memorizing characters was the idea that it wasn't worth doing. However, this passage from the Self-Regulated Learning paper [0] that circulated around HN convinced me otherwise: "We need to understand, too, t…

As someone who spent a lot of time learning Chinese without any clear end goal, I think it was mostly a waste of time. Educational? Yes, and it's fun to be able to understand Chinese characters from time to time, but in hindsight I would've rather spent all that time on something more meaningful to my life.

That said, if you intend to live in China or have Chinese heritage or you have some other reason to study Chinese --- that's great! But it's not a bad idea to consider where you're going with something before dumping thousands of hours into it. (In fact, I quit chess for the same reason...)

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#385

Post by xor1 » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #357

mattlondon wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you believe that you need to the environment, structure, and pace provided by college/university to actually learn CS, and that you're incapable of doing so on your own? For me, it was not a case of not being able to do it on my own, it was not knowing what I should know . You could probably spend years becoming an expert on C# or Java or C++ or Go or whatever just by coding in it at your own pace (or at a job)…

> what they should learn next Easy: whatever seems interesting. > when, and in what order Every single book I've read listed the things you should know before reading it in the introduction. If there's something you don't know about, you go back to the library or bookstore. Rinse and repeat, then start from the bottom and climb back up until you reach the first book. It's easy. > and never need to ask any experienced…

>As I said, smart people are everywhere (on the Internet), just reach out and they'll help you. Well, maybe it was easier in the 90s - or maybe not, I don't know - but I'm 100% sure that not all the smart people of the world are in colleges right now.

It's easier now than it ever was.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#386

Post by mmirate » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

noblethrasher wrote: post #98

mmirate wrote: post #84

Why is it necessary to truly avoid exploiting the other party, instead of merely maintaining for them an illusion that they're not being exploited?

Because doing so desensitizes you to the pain and suffering of others. Maybe a society full of sociopaths can get along just fine, but I'd rather not run that experiment.

Why not? Afraid they'll actually get things done instead of faffing about with thefts and handouts and bureaucracy?

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#387

Post by faitswulff » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

msvan wrote: post #384

faitswulff wrote: post #73

1. Learning Chinese characters with Anki. After a decade out of practice, I realize I would have done a lot better in my college studies if I actually studied. Wild idea, I know. One thing that prevented me from memorizing characters was the idea that it wasn't worth doing. However, this passage from the Self-Regulated Learning paper [0] that circulated around HN convinced me otherwise: "We need to understand, too, t…

As someone who spent a lot of time learning Chinese without any clear end goal, I think it was mostly a waste of time. Educational? Yes, and it's fun to be able to understand Chinese characters from time to time, but in hindsight I would've rather spent all that time on something more meaningful to my life. That said, if you intend to live in China or have Chinese heritage or you have some other reason to study Chine…

That's a fair point. It's a heritage language for me, and my wife and in-laws are fluent, which leaves me in the dark or asking for translations all the time. I don't have a concrete goal, but I do have motive.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#388

Post by stallmanifold » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

MattHood0 wrote: post #61

alexchamberlain wrote: post #6

Programming (I feel like that might be cheating on HN...) I started programming about 16 years ago (I think), when my Dad bought a basic introduction to HTML for himself, which I ended up "borrowing". I super geeky teenage life followed where I learned various languages, including Python, Delphi and an obscure language called RapidEuphoria (honest, that is a programming language, with some interesting features actual…

I'm curious about your experience going from a maths degree to a software engineering career - do you find the maths to be specifically and/or broadly relevant to your work? Are there any anecdotes you'd like to share on the process?

I did one of my undergrads in mathematics. For me the primary benefit of studying pure mathematics was that it greatly improved my ability to think clearly. Mathematics more than almost any other discipline (physics and philosophy are on par with maths here) has the power to remove conceptual clutter, teach you to capture the essence of a problem, and be a more careful thinker. I've always been a first principles thinker, and maths made me a much better one. There is a night and day difference in how you think between the beginning and end of a good undergraduate Real Analysis course.

Applied to software engineering, it (indirectly) improved my abilty to understanding what a piece of software needs to do and why it's there. It also improved my ability to discern what level of abstraction is appropriate to the problem at hand, and figure out what questions to ask. In short, mathematics changes the way you think in a very powerful way. The precise contents of what you learn in the subject aren't necessarily applicable to everyday software engineering outside of a few areas, but the way of thinking is eminently so. For a personal example of where mathematics does come up in programming in a direct way, I do hobby graphics programming, which necessitates fluency in elementary linear algebra and benefits from grasping vector calculus (if you want to understand how light transport works and where physically-based rendering algorithms come from).

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#389

Post by yorwba » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

songzme wrote: post #247

Learning how to smile. I would spend time in front of the mirror practicing my smile for different situations. During interviews I would force myself to smile. It helped get rid of some nervousness. When I get stuck on a problem I would smile stupidly and usually the interviewer would help me out. When I feel like conversations are getting heated I would take a step back and smile, it helps me direct the conversion t…

I also practiced smiling to change my neutral expression (which used to cause people to worry that I might be sad) and now I constantly have a slight smile.

I still haven't gotten used to strangers on the street suddenly smiling brightly at me, it always takes me a moment to realize it was me who smiled at them first.

The secondary effect of receiving unexpected smiles definitely also helps to improve my mood.

Re: Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time invested in mastering them?

#390

Post by fredsir » Sat, Sep 29, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

MisterOctober wrote: post #332

fredsir wrote: post #275

> Your most important asset is your ability to produce income. I think that's an incredibly sad way to view yourself and your life, albeit I bet that for many people producing income is the single most important thing. I see that as a consequence and a failure of society.

May be, but most anyone who has ever been economically disadvantaged can tell you that it's damn sure the practical reality if you aim to participate in contemporary industrial civilization. When you're home-insecure, health-vulnerable, and have a family depending on you, income starts to dwarf things like ideals in one's value schema. Which is more sad, the people who debase themselves in order to provide for their…

> I see that as a consequence and a failure of society