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Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

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Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#381

Post by phaus »

brickmort wrote: post #307
aik wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I read a 300 page book and it has even just one sentence that somehow speaks to me and makes me introspect or reconsider or change some mental model I have, I absolutely find it with while. Sometimes the one encounter is enough to cause change (though sometimes it takes a while for my brain to change/adapt), and sometimes it takes multiple encounters with the idea. IMO any book can be categorized as "self-help" -…

This is how I feel about this book (12 Rules for Life). I was actually just thinking about his 'Tell The Truth' chapter just last night. It's such a simple concept, but if you find yourself lying, even to yourself, you find that ultimately it snowballs into a worse problem in the future. Even if this is all I got out of the book (which it isn't) it's absolutely worth the read.

Do you really need a 300 page book to tell you that you're not fortunate enough to be the first person in recorded history that doesn't ever lie to other people? Do you need it to tell you that you're also not the first person in recorded history to be free of bias (self-deception)? What do you think about the linked article's assessment of the summary of principles? This is the first time I've heard of this guy and the princicples, along with everything else the author quoted sound just as vapid as he suggests.

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#382

Post by phaus »

king_panic wrote: post #186
philangist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved the message of self-reliance and "bearing your burden" in the book personally, it really reminded me of Mark Manson's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Could've done without all the religious metaphor but I understand the point of it being there.

He reframes religion (specifically Christianity and the Bible) as a symbolic guide to living as opposed to a historical text that should be taken at face value. i.e. God is a symbol for the greatest good. Christ is a symbol for the human ideal of that greatest good. In his view, the value of the Bible is not as a pre-scientific historical account of the world. Instead, it's a survival guide for generations of people…

How does viewing God and Christ as symbols for the greatest good make sense? If they existed and were anything remotely resembling what the Old and New Testaments describe they were incredibly immoral and psychopathic at various times.

I think we stand to learn quite a bit from reading the Christian bible, but I didn't walk away feeling like anyone should emulate the behavior on display.

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#383

Post by joeyespo »

emodendroket wrote: post #83

If I'm being honest, I read a lot of books, but the only one I can think of really substantially changing my worldview was the Bible. Since you probably do not want to read the entire thing I am particularly a fan of Ecclesiastes, and maybe you could try some of the gospels if you still have steam after that.

There's an excellent YouTube channel called The Bible Project that breaks down each book in the Bible, explores recurring themes, and explains the original meaning of certain translated words. Their Ecclesiastes videos is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeUiuSK81-0

Here's another from them that answers "what exactly _is_ the Bible?" for anyone curious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_CGP-12AE0

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#384

Post by WhompingWindows »

lostcolony wrote: post #267
WhompingWindows wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh ok, thank you for your response. What are some examples of what the Christian faith offers you, the comprehensive framework?

Again, not op, but, it gives me a reason to pick the altruistic option rather than the selfish one, when I can 'morally' justify both. For instance, beggar on the street. I can feel morally okay by saying "They might not really be in need, just doing this to get extra money; I'll donate to organizations dedicated to helping homeless instead". But from my Christian perspective it changes, "Why am I judging this person…

Thanks for your response, I am cherishing the open dialogue that is definitely outside of my bubble. I see your personal viewpoint, but what about the aggregate? Taking Christianity as a whole, I believe it's fair to characterize it as being used for many extremely violent acts, such as the nominal justification for crusades, for religious wars in Europe (catholic vs protestant, for instance), or for the suppression of free speech and scientific advancement (galileo, evolutionary theory, the big bang, and so forth). To me, in the aggregate, it seems that these negatives have balanced off or perhaps outweighed the potential good works of practitioners who otherwise would not have performed good works.

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#385

Post by moretai »

taeric wrote: post #338
moretai wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not neccessarily anything wrong with him. It's just our tendency to flock to these figures to the answers of our problems, and perhaps they fix a couple people for a five year span, but a new generation washes in, and another guy will get his shine. Information doesn't fix anything. He's just cashing in.

This comment is leaving me with some pause. Quite frankly, I didn't even know the name of the author, and would have stared at anyone blankly that said it. Still would, oddly. I did enjoy his reading of his book. And I will admit that I found some of the ideas more compelling than I would have thought seeing them on paper. In particular, the religious overtones are somewhat offputting to me, on paper. Will see how I…

I am not accusing peterson of anything. I'm just trying to predict the future. He seems like an icon. Something long lasting. He's just another figurehead, and anyone could have filled his place. This is just tides turning. This is just a hiccup in the universe. He will go away, he will try to stick around, and it will be ugly. But he will fade away. He will go mainstream. It won't matter. This is just entertainment. It's not real help. It's not therapy. It's not a fix for the underlying issue of our society and our males.

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#386

Post by keane »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #158
emodendroket wrote: post #83

If I'm being honest, I read a lot of books, but the only one I can think of really substantially changing my worldview was the Bible. Since you probably do not want to read the entire thing I am particularly a fan of Ecclesiastes, and maybe you could try some of the gospels if you still have steam after that.

How did it change your worldview? I tried to start it and couldn't get into it, despite knowing it's important to 40% of the world and is referenced in other sources very commonly.

It's not unusual to try to start it and not be able to get into it because many aspects are so dense and confusing. Rather than start at page one, try to first get an overview of the message and purpose of Jesus by listening to an audio sermon, like this one from Mosaic in Los Angeles, "Why Jesus?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jqlZlYlr2c

Now, as you work through the Bible, Old and New, attempt to see if pictures in the old testament portray this one message, using Jesus as a lens. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(theology) for some examples.

There are Bibles with the references to Jesus in the Old Testament highlighted, which will help you do this. The Jesus-Centered Bible [0] has allusions made to Jesus in the Old Testament printed in blue text and is probably the most useful for doing this. The Gospel Transformation Bible: Christ in all of Scripture [1] has extensive footnotes showing the message of Jesus in the narrative and poetry that precedes him by hundreds of years.

[0]: https://www.christianbook.com/nlt-jesus-centered-bible-leath... [1]: https://www.amazon.com/ESV-Gospel-Transformation-Bible-Black...

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#387

Post by taeric »

moretai wrote: post #385
taeric wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is leaving me with some pause. Quite frankly, I didn't even know the name of the author, and would have stared at anyone blankly that said it. Still would, oddly. I did enjoy his reading of his book. And I will admit that I found some of the ideas more compelling than I would have thought seeing them on paper. In particular, the religious overtones are somewhat offputting to me, on paper. Will see how I…

I am not accusing peterson of anything. I'm just trying to predict the future. He seems like an icon. Something long lasting. He's just another figurehead, and anyone could have filled his place. This is just tides turning. This is just a hiccup in the universe. He will go away, he will try to stick around, and it will be ugly. But he will fade away. He will go mainstream. It won't matter. This is just entertainment.…

You accuse him of "cashing in." If that is meant as a value free statement, my apologies. You then state that "he seems like an icon. Something long lasting."

Oddly, he just seems like an author, to me. If he is a figurehead, I missed that there was a movement. Is there more subtext to this? I assumed he just had a good seller. Oddly, many people can and do lay claim to that honor. It neither diminishes nor distinguishes it.

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#388

Post by willurd »

JoshMnem wrote: post #277
sarabande wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This book was not worth the hype for me; I read the whole thing, but regret purchasing it. - It sorely needed an editor. Echoing other's sentiments, it could have been - It used a gratuitous amount of Bible quotes, which 1. weren't necessary to make his point, 2. were often referenced as if they were data, and how people actually behave, rather than anecdotes/fiction I got suckered into to buying the book because the…

This[1] is worth reading. "Jordan Peterson's popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape" [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-d...

The author of this article either didn't actually read 12 Rules for Life or already made up their mind before going in.

> Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say.

The irony of this is that the author himself has nothing of real value to say. (See, I said it so it must be true)

Re: Ask HN: Which books have made you introspect?

#389

Post by shansense »

DLA wrote: post #246
mountbranch wrote: post #113

- Gödel, Escher, Bach, Douglas Hofstadter - Principles, Ray Dalio - L'Etranger, Albert Camus - Les Fleurs du Mal, Charles Baudelaire - The Dao of Capital, Mark Spitznagel - Howl, Allen Ginsberg - On the Road, Jack Kerouac I could go on and on...

Totally agree with mountbranch here. Principles is fantastic. At the same time you may read and think "sure, common sense" but then did you think that before you read the item -- probably not. I feel this is a book to keep for a lifetime. Can't wait for Ray's economics book. Cool animated summary here: https://www.principles.com/principles-for-success/ The Dao of Capital is deeper. The chapter on Conifers (yeah, pine…

Second this. Taleb's Black Swan and Spitznagel's Dao of Capital especially were extremely thought provoking and have changed the course of my life. I read them every year at least.
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