Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#381

Post by jpindar » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:50 PM UTC

gkya wrote: post #347

DanGarcia595 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, would you, not knowing the meaning of a word, use that word in a professional environment? And also, does not understanding the meaning of the word excuse it's use?

I said he may have mistaken the meaning of the word. They don't have footnotes on porn sites deciphering milf, bdsm, cfnm etc. Sometimes we say silly things in foreign languages. And also in our mother tongues. It's not like we check every word we use in the dictionary.

Helpful Hint: If the only place you see a word is on porn sites, it's probably not a good thing to call a coworker.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#382

Post by Frozenlock » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:51 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #379

Frozenlock wrote: post #373

Wow. So few information, but so many people ready to fire his ass. At this point, I wonder if we should have men/women segregation in the workplace. This is the logical conclusion if you want to avoid this kind of problems.

> I wonder if we should have men/women segregation in the workplace. That assumes all of your employees are heterosexual. Once you assume some employees may be homosexual, bisexual, non-binary, asexual, etc. you quickly get a graph where employees are nodes are edges are "could possibly have unwanted attraction towards" that is not bipartite.

You are right. I also forgot those identifying as unicornkin.

Remote work for everyone is the only solution. :-p

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#383

Post by lotharbot » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:52 PM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #361

jasonpeacock wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, you don't know what will happen until it does happen. It could be as simple as "Wow, Joe reported Bob for sexual harassment, but Bob didn't do anything wrong - I was there. Now I have to be extra-careful around Joe to avoid getting reported myself!" And there you go - Joe is now suffering from "retaliation" and being treated special for speaking up.

That is already happening in many professional contexts though - and without Joe ever having to speak up about anything. Male professors avoid being alone with female students. Male colleagues refuse to work with or to a lesser extent, refuse to be friendly on any sort of casual level with female colleagues entirely just because of the small risk that an accusation could cost them their job/career. This fear actively…

As a professional educator (at many different levels -- a college TA, a museum educator with K-12 programs, and working in an elementary school) the expectation I was given was to never be alone in a place that isn't publicly visible with any student under the age of 18, of any gender, ever. With students over the age of 18, there was still a strong expectation to keep student-teacher interactions semi-public. (I am male, but female instructors were given the same expectation at every stage.)

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#384

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:52 PM UTC

Frozenlock wrote: post #382

munificent wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if we should have men/women segregation in the workplace. That assumes all of your employees are heterosexual. Once you assume some employees may be homosexual, bisexual, non-binary, asexual, etc. you quickly get a graph where employees are nodes are edges are "could possibly have unwanted attraction towards" that is not bipartite.

You are right. I also forgot those identifying as unicornkin. Remote work for everyone is the only solution. :-p

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#385

Post by stonecraftwolf » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #301

stonecraftwolf wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh God, yes, lawyer. And yes, fire him. In regards to OPs confusion about the innocent employees trepidation -- there is a reasonable fear of reprisals here. From you, from others on the team, and from the sexual harasser. Reprisals are often not easily identified -- they can be subtle and social in nature. What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to…

> What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to talk to her. They keep her out of the loop on casual stuff, but lots of professional discussions happen in casual contexts. Over time, she gets iced out for reporting illegal behavior. I think this really depends on your team dynamic, and I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about this point (as valid as it…

The thing is, the world is full of people who are abusive or terrible when in private or one-on-one, yet adhere to social norms when in a group. Every woman I know who has reported her rapist or her harasser has had this said to her in some variation--it couldn't happen here, because we're not like that. It doesn't work that way.

I've had conversations with male friends about this that eventually boiled down to, "well, I just don't want to think the people I know and like could be capable of that." Yeah, imagine how much we hate it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#386

Post by techjuice » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

Sexual harassment is always a big deal due to it being illegal according to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 - https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

You will need to insure your company, employees and yourself are legally protected by visiting an attorney as soon as possible. As it appears you do not have the standard company guidelines and procedures in place for investigating and terminating employees found violating law. Your attorney should be able to help you draft the proper paperwork and procedures to accomplish this in your company policy and employee training.

When you talk with your attorney there may be more things that are required to do legally (filing a police report, filing charges, having the employee harassed file charges if she wants too, etc.). The attorney will be able to walk you through everything you need to do. As it may not be a big deal to your employee now, but that could change down the road, especially if it unfortunately picks up again or escalates. Now would be the best time to resolve the issue while it is only at the texting phase, as things would go downhill for your entire business quick if it were to escalate in the near future.

I hope you are able to get this sorted quickly as it is very important to have something like this in a well known zero tolerance policy that everyone knows about on their first day on the job during their on boarding process.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#387

Post by econner » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

ta_donk_gt wrote: post #292

econner wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will firing him worsen the problem? I would fire this guy immediately. > Men and women need to learn to interact at work. Men should not need sensitivity training to interact with women at work.

> Men should not need sensitivity training to interact with women at work. I know it feels good to take zero tolerance policies, and we all do it (why do you think we have so many people in prison in this country). But..maybe he is some kid in his early- or mid-20's and has very little workplace experience outside of small startups working mostly with other males his age. He may have never had the opportunity to unde…

I have no sympathy for the "boys will be boys" side of this argument. I am a male in my early 20's so am familiar with the mindset. Sure maybe zero tolerance is a bit far, but every woman I know has a story like this. Every one has had to deflect some strange workplace advance or some uncomfortable proposition by a superior. The problem is magnified 10 fold when the workplace is so heavily skewed male (as it is in tech). Retroactive sensitivity training isn't going to fix this problem.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#388

Post by l33tbro » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #375

l33tbro wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really get what you're saying. But don't you think the fact his guy is already acting like a cowboy a little while into his job raises some red flags? Sure, if he'd been there a while and was carrying on like this then some sensitivity training might be the best option. But this BDM is acting like a loose cannon somewhere that he has just been employed. Seems like a bad hire all-round, regardless of the SH stuff.

Your sexual harassment policy cannot be written for one specific instance. And if you write it with a "Guilty until proven innocent" (or just hey, hang 'em high on her word alone) framing, this is going to cause serious problems. I am aware that people like to get on their high horse concerning perceived injustice, but the comments here are a) passing judgement on third hand information -- she told her boss, who came…

Agree. I would definitely not want to work at the kind of place you mention (it actually sounds a little bit like modern academia in the liberal arts). But third-hand information aside, I can't imagine a context in which someone would feel it's okay to act like this at a brand new workplace.

I wouldn't call the discussion here histrionic either. I think it's a progressive dialogue of really differing opinions, which I find are illuminating issues I hadn't thought of. Also most people here are pretty intelligent and would be treating it like a thought experiment, as we know we do not have all the information at hand.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#389

Post by gkya » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #226

matwood wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud you for this comment and how you handled your situation. Hopefully the man in your story also apologized to you. People are people and in a moment of idiocy can make stupid comments. Every single person has said something stupid at some point. It is how we handle things afterwards that matter.

No, he did not apologize. Nor did I expect him too. I expected him to treat me with respect, not kiss my ass, curry favor or fear me. I spent some time making sure he understood that I was not a threat to him, not out to get him and that I was also going to do all in my power to respect him. This is how I won his trust. He was a very good looking man in a female majority department. Eventually, he seemed to take a fe…

I'm glad that you exist.

From what I get reading these threads on this post, many people with power to fire and hire people know a big glossy nothing about human interaction and psychology. Not even one person gives a thought to whether the guy knows what MILF actually is. Not a single consideration was given to his age, his background, his experience. No chance to make a single mistake. Is it mostly like this in the US?

And after all, if the woman thought that she was sexually harassed, I don't understand why she didn't tell that to the guy himself first, or didn't go to police, before telling it to her boss. We're talking about a bunch of adult, employed people here, why does the boss have to act like a primary school teacher overseeing interactions between adults?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#390

Post by Mz » Tue, May 10, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

l33tbro wrote: post #388

Mz wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sexual harassment policy cannot be written for one specific instance. And if you write it with a "Guilty until proven innocent" (or just hey, hang 'em high on her word alone) framing, this is going to cause serious problems. I am aware that people like to get on their high horse concerning perceived injustice, but the comments here are a) passing judgement on third hand information -- she told her boss, who came…

Agree. I would definitely not want to work at the kind of place you mention (it actually sounds a little bit like modern academia in the liberal arts). But third-hand information aside, I can't imagine a context in which someone would feel it's okay to act like this at a brand new workplace. I wouldn't call the discussion here histrionic either. I think it's a progressive dialogue of really differing opinions, which…

An awful lot of people here are ready to fire the guy without due process. And you cannot say "third hand information aside." You cannot set that fact aside. It is all we have to go on.

A lot of what has been written here does look histrionic to me.