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Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

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Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#371

Post by scrapcode »

bsdpufferfish wrote: post #261
scrapcode wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that really cause legal liability, though? The state/federal entity that released them from prison is essentially saying 'okay, we think this person has paid their dues and has a good chance at being a productive member of society.'

You have a lot of faith in public opinion. What would your family and friends think if they found out a teacher at your child’s high school had done 20 years?

I get the sentiment, and there is due diligence such as background checks required for many public trust positions for that reason, but is there really legal liability created immediately at the time of hiring someone because of their record- or does it just satisfy the models more when you hire someone that got convicted versus someone that has not?

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#372

Post by phpisthebest »

justsomeoldguy wrote: post #367
phpisthebest wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree but you have to remember that the mandatory minimums are a reaction to other types of judges that go very soft on violent offenders that end up reoffending and causing more violence and more victims and there are clear evidence that this person was going to reoffend again oftentimes having already offended multiple times and committed multiple crimes against multiple victims and are given fourth fifth sixt…

it all boils down to this: does more time make people offend less? does simply adding more time reduce recidivism rates? no, it does not. https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/society/2022/re... "In 2015, for example, an analysis by Swiss researchers looked at 14 studies that compared what happened when criminals were put behind bars to what happened when they were given some other sentence, such as probation…

>>it all boils down to this:does more time make people offend less? does simply adding more time reduce recidivism rates? no, it does not.

No that is not what is boils down to, i dont even agree that prison should be viewed as a punishment at all

Prison should be for separating a person that is a danger to others until such time they are no longer a danger to others. Judges often have a bad record at picking who will be a danger and who will not thus by default for public safety the public demands people convicted of crimes be sent away for a long time to maximize the possible safety of the public at the expense of the individuals that get caught up in the system

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#373

Post by throwaway2037 »

yieldcrv wrote: post #159
ericpauley wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with this is that, if you ban employers from getting signal about employees, they will attempt to infer the same information by other means. This inference can often be unfairly biased. See related issues with racial discrimination caused by Ban the Box initiatives: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/upshot/ban-the-box-an-eff...

> Before the regulations took effect, candidates with criminal histories were far less likely to be called back, irrespective of race. > After the regulations, lacking the ability to discern criminal history, employers became much less likely to call back any apparently black applicant. They seemed to treat all black applicants now as if they might have a criminal past. “show us your linkedin”

> “show us your linkedin”

Easy. Do they spot a blank in your employment record? Tell them that you took time off to take care of a sick relative (mother is the best really). I have used it so many times. The Rosey and Richard Noseys shut right the fuck up every single time. If you really want to play with their emotions, tell them something awful about the end of life process. "Don't ask questions where you don't want to know the answers!"

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#374

Post by throwaway2037 »

conductr wrote: post #247
JCharante wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I find it very obscene that they ask so so many obtrusive questions for "statistics"

I believe it’s compulsory or at minimum a way to protect themselves. I always choose the “rather not answer” option to every question that specifies it. The hiring managers rarely get to see the answers. Oddly enough, I’m a white male and the most protected class “abuses” I’ve ever witnessed is when I’ve been told I wasn’t allowed to hire white males. I’ve actually been told I could not hire any one except a women be…

My response will be controversial: I am unsympathetic. Find the 9%+ of women. If they don't exist, they hire brilliant new grads and train them.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#375

Post by throwaway2037 »

akira2501 wrote: post #210
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

It should be like a credit report. If it's been at least 7 years since your last public criminal record, they should then just fall off your "report," and no longer be visible except to the courts. It used to be that you could pay your debt, and unless your crime was infamous, the "memory" of it would fade from society rather quickly. The internet and private databases have definitely hampered this facility and perha…

FYI: As I understand, Japan is five years. After which, you can safely answer that you have no criminal record. Also, except for public media, it is basically impossible to run a criminal background check in Japan. There are few exceptions for things like C-suite level jobs and certain gov't jobs.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#376

Post by autoexec »

phpisthebest wrote: post #372
justsomeoldguy wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it all boils down to this: does more time make people offend less? does simply adding more time reduce recidivism rates? no, it does not. https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/society/2022/re... "In 2015, for example, an analysis by Swiss researchers looked at 14 studies that compared what happened when criminals were put behind bars to what happened when they were given some other sentence, such as probation…

>>it all boils down to this:does more time make people offend less? does simply adding more time reduce recidivism rates? no, it does not. No that is not what is boils down to, i dont even agree that prison should be viewed as a punishment at all Prison should be for separating a person that is a danger to others until such time they are no longer a danger to others. Judges often have a bad record at picking who will…

I'd agree that prison should be reserved for people who have proven themselves to be dangerous and a risk to others, but I think a few days/weeks in a jail cell as a "time out" can still be a valid form of punishment and that it may be needed to keep people behind bars in other instances as well (flight risks for example).

We know that past a certain point harsher punishments in general are not a deterrent to people committing crimes so we need the public to grow a spine and reject the idea of excessive sentences since while it makes them feel safe, it's just putting them at further risk. Some facts are a hard sell to people though, especially when they're afraid.

We have a huge problem with mass incarceration in the US and the treatment of people we lock up and the conditions of those facilities need major reform, but I don't think we should abandon the idea of locking people up as a punishment entirely.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#377

Post by x0x0 »

randomdata wrote: post #282
x0x0 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant silly to use exploits find while performing a pentest for malicious purposes. You get well paid and it's legal.

Then what do you need pen testers for? With an offer like that, any threats to your system will come work for you instead. The reality is that you don't get paid well if the data is worthless. You only get paid well when the data is worth orders of magnitude more than what you're being offered. If you are inclined to break that law, that's a pretty nice carrot dangling there. If you are so inclined, why wouldn't you…

My claim is that people tend not to do crime if there's a very well-paid alternative, and I think I have pretty good empirical backing on that one. Also, our data is probably not worth that much. We do pen testing so we don't get popped and leak our customers data, likely losing some of our customer base (even if it isn't worth much, not having it leaked is); because soc2 essentially demands it; and because smart customers care more about pentests done by good firms than soc2.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#378

Post by randomdata »

x0x0 wrote: post #377
randomdata wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what do you need pen testers for? With an offer like that, any threats to your system will come work for you instead. The reality is that you don't get paid well if the data is worthless. You only get paid well when the data is worth orders of magnitude more than what you're being offered. If you are inclined to break that law, that's a pretty nice carrot dangling there. If you are so inclined, why wouldn't you…

My claim is that people tend not to do crime if there's a very well-paid alternative, and I think I have pretty good empirical backing on that one. Also, our data is probably not worth that much. We do pen testing so we don't get popped and leak our customers data, likely losing some of our customer base (even if it isn't worth much, not having it leaked is); because soc2 essentially demands it; and because smart cus…

Exactly. So what do you need pen testers for[1]? Just pay the 'bad guys' to go away.

[1] Okay, regulation, but the need for such regulation is still in question.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#379

Post by bigbillheck »

throwawaymypot wrote: post #326
bigbillheck wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to the clear lack of malicious intent I didn't serve any time, but did get shackled with: 12 months suspended for 12 months; 10 years on the sex offenders register; 7 years sexual harm prevention order; and 5 years of something else I can't remember. What did you actually do, and what did they get you for? > 5 years of something else I can't remember. Just speaking for myself, I feel like I'd remember something…

During a manic phase of bipolar I thought I had a great idea to support my application to join the police as a forensic investigator. Quite ironic really. Due to the unusual nature of my case the judge excluded from all the usual mandatory courses during probation. Convictions included "making of, "possession of", "distribution of" (a few others I can't remember) CSAM. A single P2P file ticks all three boxes. People…

> A single P2P file ticks all three boxes.

How many did you have?

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