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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#371

Post by marcind »

manquer wrote: post #359
paulryanrogers wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also in person meetings are useful over a video call largely because there is lot of information from body language you can pick up being up close to someone. There is a lot of information on how someone breathes, moves or posture etc. I keep hearing this but don't feel I've lost anything working fully remote for the last five years. Are there experiments proving that a call with high quality audio is so much worse…

It depends on the kind of work you do. Some roles doesn't require that much collaboration or discussions. A senior developer/IC in a well run shop maybe requires to attend 1-2 meetings a day and can function efficiently for years without distractions of a work place. However roles that require a lot of whiteboarding and brain storming simply don't work well remote on zoom. it is hard to share a meaningful simple whit…

"...roles that require a lot of whiteboarding and brain storming simply don't work well remote on zoom"

Agreed. And the point about eye contact really extends to any remote exchange... though I believe it is particularly important in education (where we've supplanted a human-rich interaction with staring at files or tiny heads).

If I may be so bold, our team is working on a solution to both of these issues. By digitizing contents from physical/analog surfaces in real time, we're trying to encourage folks to keep the whiteboard (or blackboard or paper...). If you have the energy, would love some feedback: https://sharetheboard.com

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#372

Post by niknoble »

hakfoo wrote: post #89
Shank wrote: post #33

Conceptually speaking, the difference with AR/VR is that you can have a truly immersive experience, which really does give you more possibilities than just Second Life, which was always just a 3D game world on a 2D screen. The pitch from Meta and with AR/VR is that with the ability to use 3D space, you can actually turn Second Life-style virtual worlds into something useful with actual tangible benefits. For example,…

To me, the problem is finding situations where immersiveness actually adds value. I think for a lot of social interactions, it doesn't, or it offers rapidly diminishing value. This conversation would not be meaningfully better as a virtual/augmented reality 3D live chat. The Google Hangouts (or whatever it's called this week) meetings with my team at work would not be better either. I'm not even sure it would beat pl…

I would argue that the metaverse is not competing with Google Hangouts or Discord. In fact, you will still be able to use these things inside the metaverse and will still get value out of them.

The metaverse is not competing against the 2D internet by trying to make it immersive, but rather against the physical world by trying to make it more useful. From that perspective, VR offers value everywhere the laws of physics are inconvenient, which is just about everywhere.

Take the example of walking to a college class on a rainy day. In the physical world, you have to carry an umbrella, and the walk takes 15 minutes. In the metaverse, you can tell the rain not to make you wet, or you can teleport to class without ever going outside.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#373

Post by gfodor »

tomc1985 wrote: post #352
gfodor wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding. The point is you simply will not get certain creative works in this model. They will not be worth the opportunity cost. There is no reality where you get “no scarcity” as well as “all the creative works you would have gotten with scarcity.” (Ie, probably most of those which have led to our present day wealth.) Your proposed world is to say we ought to just not have people crea…

I'm willing to lose "some" creative works because of a lack of scarcity. Speaking from experience, artists will always want to create. That is the creative drive. There is no reason that work should not be accessible to all if the technology allows for it. If it would mean less profiteers, less fakers, less pretenders, less sharks, less debutantes, less tourists... I'm all for it. There are plenty of ways to profit a…

What you’re saying is that the artists who are currently paid for their work either will create it gratis or we can live without it. A fairly bold claim to make that this would be a worthy change, given the loss of creative work and loss of quality of life to those who create it that it would yield. Particularly when the counter argument is just to let artists produce work on their own terms, which will arguably be a better local maximum of the version of the world you advocate for and the one we have today.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#374

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #28

Second Life was limited in many ways, as far as gameplay goes. Ultimately it failed because it was boring, in my opinion. More modern examples of games that approach this concept are Minecraft or Roblox (public company valued at $45B). Roblox in particular is interesting as it created a platform for others to make game experiences and re-sell them, and it's been very successful. Minecraft, too, has had a lot of stayi…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#375

Post by RhodesianHunter »

niknoble wrote: post #372
hakfoo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the problem is finding situations where immersiveness actually adds value. I think for a lot of social interactions, it doesn't, or it offers rapidly diminishing value. This conversation would not be meaningfully better as a virtual/augmented reality 3D live chat. The Google Hangouts (or whatever it's called this week) meetings with my team at work would not be better either. I'm not even sure it would beat pl…

I would argue that the metaverse is not competing with Google Hangouts or Discord. In fact, you will still be able to use these things inside the metaverse and will still get value out of them. The metaverse is not competing against the 2D internet by trying to make it immersive, but rather against the physical world by trying to make it more useful. From that perspective, VR offers value everywhere the laws of physi…

How does your example show an advantage over logging into Zoom from your home laptop?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#376

Post by adultvrgames »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #375
niknoble wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the metaverse is not competing with Google Hangouts or Discord. In fact, you will still be able to use these things inside the metaverse and will still get value out of them. The metaverse is not competing against the 2D internet by trying to make it immersive, but rather against the physical world by trying to make it more useful. From that perspective, VR offers value everywhere the laws of physi…

How does your example show an advantage over logging into Zoom from your home laptop?

It’s the spatial factor. Imagine being in a room with 40 other people and then breaking up into groups of 5. My group of 5 will organize together spatially so that we can hear each other well but still being able to hear some background noise from others. If something from another group catches my eye, I can walk over there and see what’s up and interact. This is not possible to do in a zoom meeting because it doesn’t even have a sense of 2D let alone 3D space.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#377

Post by saluki »

I think it will mainly be entertainment and nostalgia.

The key for entertainment will be becoming someone else.

Being the QB in the game or maybe seeing things as players in actual games.

Being able to play in a concert as any member of your favorite band, being able to talk to the crowd and they respond.

Playing your favorite actor in your favorite movie.

Meet up with friends at a concert of sporting event, current ones or ones in the past.

I expect they will recreate epic sporting events from the past.

Someone creates your hometown or your college campus what it looked like in the past that you can explore in VR.

You can have someone create your house you grew up in or maybe you can even recreate the tree house you played in and invite your friends to meet there.

Virtual dance clubs for both exercise and meeting new people.

Virtual sports bars to cheer on your team, maybe even sports bars for specific games where fans from both teams can interact.

True virtual shopping, see and try out products in VR.

Oh and the adult industry always tends to be the leader in new technology pushing everyone in a specific direction.

I don't want Fbook to create it but I think the metaverse could be great.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#378

Post by niknoble »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #375
niknoble wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the metaverse is not competing with Google Hangouts or Discord. In fact, you will still be able to use these things inside the metaverse and will still get value out of them. The metaverse is not competing against the 2D internet by trying to make it immersive, but rather against the physical world by trying to make it more useful. From that perspective, VR offers value everywhere the laws of physi…

How does your example show an advantage over logging into Zoom from your home laptop?

Similar to what I said in GP, the metaverse is not a competitor to Zoom but to the physical world where you are using the laptop.

In the physical world, you have to buy that laptop and maintain it. You need to keep it close to you in order to access Zoom. It takes up space, has weight, and has one screen of fixed size which may crack or degrade. The layout of the keyboard can't be changed if you decide you want to try DVORAK instead of QWERTY, or if you decide you would type faster with a numpad. Any of the keys may stop working. Fashions may change so that the laptop looks ugly or retro, or simply looks bad to you, and your only recourse if you want to change that is to buy a new one. If you are using the laptop and someone is standing behind you, he can see your Zoom call and hear what you say regardless of whether you want him to. Earbuds give some privacy but come with a lot of the same issues as the laptop.

Eventually, there will be none of these physical limitations in the metaverse. There will be limitations on the headset, or whatever hardware you're using to access the metaverse, but that's only one item instead of every aspect of your life.

We're living in a prison of physical constraints, but we see them as so inevitable that we don't even bother to complain.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#379

Post by rhizome »

manquer wrote: post #78
88913527 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all talking about the Metaverse instead of whatever else is going on with Facebook. So it changed the public narrative. However, the latest earnings report was fine, so rumors of Meta's demise are quite exaggerated. Their other web properties will remain profitable for a long time. I see many others here calling out FB's pending decline, but I don't see anyone offering a clear thesis for how it happens. It coul…

Not financial death. Oracle is having the best years and making a ton of profit, but it is boring company with mediocre work and toxic reputations. Oracle cloud is still being sold and no cares. FB doesn't want to become the next Oracle It is about its relevance as a cool tech company. They will not be able to hire or retain the best engineers with current reputation problem they have.

Oracle is backed by the CIA and other spook orgs, they'll always be fine.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#380

Post by notahacker »

niknoble wrote: post #378
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your example show an advantage over logging into Zoom from your home laptop?

Similar to what I said in GP, the metaverse is not a competitor to Zoom but to the physical world where you are using the laptop. In the physical world, you have to buy that laptop and maintain it. You need to keep it close to you in order to access Zoom. It takes up space, has weight, and has one screen of fixed size which may crack or degrade. The layout of the keyboard can't be changed if you decide you want to tr…

The physical world and its constraints don't cease to exist because you're wearing a headset, but a headset-based metaverse does cease to exist if you've only got a pocket sized phone with you.

In that respect the metaverse adds rather than subtracts physical constraints compared with a world where we interact with people remotely over low bandwidth video rather than expensively rendered high definition virtual environments

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