Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

news.ycombinator.com

361–370 of 607 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#361
If your current third-party product is barely functional and unsupported, it's clear that you need to consider a replacement as part of your mid-term strategy. It seems that there is a high risk of your vendor ceasing operations or their solution not being able to support your growth. The sooner you start the transition, the less painful it will be.

When deciding whether to build a replacement yourself, consider whether this solution could become a competitive advantage in the market. This is unlikely to be the case for a logistics company unless you plan to sell the software you build. From a business perspective, it's usually better to invest in your core strengths and outsource everything else as much as possible. Otherwise, securing the budget to hire the right talent in the right amounts will always be more challenging.

Assuming software is not your core strength, it may be wiser to search for one or several solutions that you can combine to support your strategy for decades while providing a certain level of flexibility. This might also mean building some parts of your system with low-code or even custom code, but I would try to keep that to a minimum.

If you still decide to build something custom, my recommendation would be to avoid replacing everything at once. Instead, replace your existing solution gradually. Start by rebuilding the most problematic functions first, and then add other features as you go. You might find along the way that some parts of the older solution's functionality are no longer needed.

As the founder of a low-code SaaS product (https://uibakery.io) and a service provider company (https://www.akveo.com), I can definitely relate to your challenges, which are quite similar to those of my clients. If you need any help with your transition, feel free to reach out at vlad a-t uibakery.io, and I can look at your use case in more detail or connect you with others who might help.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#363
My take is that software is a new form of literacy - it’s that important.

So here is a slightly different question: “currently all our reading and writing of English is outsourced - should we bring reading and writing in house?”

This was a serious question hundreds of years ago btw.

Edit: As for the rest of your points:

Find a good, middle aged, experienced developer who you trust. Don’t worry too much about how you tell if they write good code - you can’t. Focus on have they spent years writing code - a Middle Aged dev who is still an IC is a good indicator. Someone you trust - this is something you know from living amoung humans.

Once you have someone you trust, build around them. Pay them well. Pay the people they hire well. Demand incredibly good comprehensive stub-based “test rigs”

Use a blog and OSS as a means to attract talent - become attractive by being pro-software - believe in literacy

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#364
Seems to me that you got a quality management problem. Does not matter if your team is in-house or remote, software quality is a problem. I would try to understand why your code has those problems.

> As we are growing we're running in to the limits of what this product can offer. We're being hampered in our speed of execution and missing crucial insights.

You need to hire few very skilled software people, it seems you can afford them.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#365
post #62

IME what works best getting new projects kick started is hiring a very small team of senior freelancers, making one of them lead, and letting them loose. I worked on such a team once and it was really excellent. The advantage of this strategy is if the experiment doesn't work out, terminating freelancers is much easier than permanent (I noted you're based in Europe). Contrary to what other people said, I wouldn't try…

Having had the fun of taking over a project from a bunch of clever contractors I would caution: It may be too clever. There is value in simplicity and a stake in long term ownership. Some article here recently associated technical debt as lost institutional knowledge so handing the most key decisions to contractors has also drawbacks. One needs an integrated approach for design, build, maintenance and operation.

Yes! This also happened in the team I mentioned. Sometimes during design/architecture meetings we'd run into the "too many chiefs" problem. That's why I think it's also important to make clear who the lead is from day one.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#366
post #62

IME what works best getting new projects kick started is hiring a very small team of senior freelancers, making one of them lead, and letting them loose. I worked on such a team once and it was really excellent. The advantage of this strategy is if the experiment doesn't work out, terminating freelancers is much easier than permanent (I noted you're based in Europe). Contrary to what other people said, I wouldn't try…

My caution is at the end of working with free lancers you have no technical retention. My company worked with freelancers/consultants for years, it just delayed the inevitable. You need to start building your in house team. Find the ONE. See if he can build anything on their own. If they can/thinking is good, then scaling with freelancers seems good because you retain knowledge and long-term vision/oversight.

That's the whole point - at this point they don't know if they want to build out a full team. Start small and measure progress, you can always add permanent employees along the way. (We did this too)

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#367
post #62

IME what works best getting new projects kick started is hiring a very small team of senior freelancers, making one of them lead, and letting them loose. I worked on such a team once and it was really excellent. The advantage of this strategy is if the experiment doesn't work out, terminating freelancers is much easier than permanent (I noted you're based in Europe). Contrary to what other people said, I wouldn't try…

I'm gonna go against this heavily tbh: If you don't have a 'trusted wrangler' freelancers won't build anything worthwhile as they're not interested in the long term unless forced. There must be somebody you know, or friend of friend, to get a warm intro to an experienced developer you can pay to oversee said team on an interim basis. No consultants, agencies etc. they'll fleece a non-tech like you, save your money an…

I've worked as a freelancer for a while, and have often worked with mixes of freelancers, permanent employees and everything in between.

I think there's a big difference between bringing on a boutique consulting shop and hiring freelancers who sit together in your office. The sense of ownership and professional responsibility is way higher in the latter case. In fact I'd even go as far to say that many freelancers have MORE professional pride than permanent employees, many of whom just want to draw a paycheck and live their life.

YMMV of course!

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#368
post #91
post #62

IME what works best getting new projects kick started is hiring a very small team of senior freelancers, making one of them lead, and letting them loose. I worked on such a team once and it was really excellent. The advantage of this strategy is if the experiment doesn't work out, terminating freelancers is much easier than permanent (I noted you're based in Europe). Contrary to what other people said, I wouldn't try…

Genuine question: how do you suggest for that code to be maintained long-term if the original team was just freelancers?

The same way as with permanent employees. Agree on technical standards and documentation policies from the start. Build a good engineering culture.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#369
post #62

IME what works best getting new projects kick started is hiring a very small team of senior freelancers, making one of them lead, and letting them loose. I worked on such a team once and it was really excellent. The advantage of this strategy is if the experiment doesn't work out, terminating freelancers is much easier than permanent (I noted you're based in Europe). Contrary to what other people said, I wouldn't try…

Did you find freelancers are motivated to really learn the business like an employee (hopefully) would? In my experience of having freelancers/contracters on the team they learn things in a very shallow way, just enough to get things working. They also aren't often motivated to make things easy to maintain because they know they won't be the ones maintaining it.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#370
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: how do you suggest for that code to be maintained long-term if the original team was just freelancers?

If you do go this freelancer route I would assume that there will be no code to maintain long-term. The freelancers should be building a prototype, not something intended to last decades. Either the freelancers work out and you begin hiring a permanent team (hopefully converting some freelancers to full-time) who will promptly rewrite / revise the prototype or you will go back to paying for software. Either way the p…

Not my experience: freelancers have often built the initial versions of a product that have then become the permanent version. Even products that start as prototypes, if not total trash, often end up evolving into real software projects.

Why throw away software when you can iteratively improve and build on it? Unless the tech stack was wrong.

Post reply on HN