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Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

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Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#361

Post by eitland »

nforgerit wrote: post #348
eitland wrote: post #305

Short answer: It is worth it if you want me on the team. I refuse to work with anyone who throws out TS for JS in 2023. Slightly longer answer: I have said a number of times "Javascript is a simple version of Java in the same way as a bike with one wheel is a simpler version of an ordinary bike." The same can be said about JS and TS. If you want to do any serious work you go for the serious thing even if it means occ…

ha, If I was on that team I'd seriously consider opting for vanilla JS just for not having to work with you. People who make such absolute claims are in my experience causing more trouble than they're worth. They will always nit-pick on anything anyone is saying causing a toxic atmosphere. Frequently a little later I then figured out that such people think like that because they haven't seen enough of the world and t…

Totally fine with me.

If you don't need my advice you can save a lot of money by not hiring me. Edit: The reason why people hire me as a consultant is hopefully because I give clear and valuable advice, and on JS/TS, if TS doesn't work better you are very probably doing something wrong.

But don't complain to me when JS bites you behind again and again.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#362

Post by eitland »

dfreire wrote: post #337
eitland wrote: post #305

Short answer: It is worth it if you want me on the team. I refuse to work with anyone who throws out TS for JS in 2023. Slightly longer answer: I have said a number of times "Javascript is a simple version of Java in the same way as a bike with one wheel is a simpler version of an ordinary bike." The same can be said about JS and TS. If you want to do any serious work you go for the serious thing even if it means occ…

I don’t want to sound harsh, but saying Javascript is a simpler version of Java just tells me you have never used Java seriously. It’s like saying Korean is a simpler version of Spanish. Yes, Java and Javascript are both programming languages, but they don’t even share the same paradigm. You might be confusing the motivation that led to the creation of Javascript with the actual implementation. Having said that, I ha…

You misunderstood it : )

I love Java and despise Javascript.

In my opinion it is up there with null and other billion dollar mistakes.

The language only works as well as it does because hundreds of people smarter than me have spent hundreds of man-years creating toolings and ecosystems around it to work around all its problems.

This is not to be read as a dismissal of Brendan Eich or anyone - it is totally amazing that he threw together a language that has worked so amazingly well in three weeks.

But everytime one switches between TS and JS one wonders how much money could have been saved if he had somehow invented TS instead back then.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#363

Post by eitland »

caporaltito wrote: post #342
eitland wrote: post #305

Short answer: It is worth it if you want me on the team. I refuse to work with anyone who throws out TS for JS in 2023. Slightly longer answer: I have said a number of times "Javascript is a simple version of Java in the same way as a bike with one wheel is a simpler version of an ordinary bike." The same can be said about JS and TS. If you want to do any serious work you go for the serious thing even if it means occ…

Comparing Java & Javascript? This reminds me the last recruiter message I got on LinkedIn. "You are a Javascript expert, I have this mission for you with the same language! They're looking for a Java expert!"

I am pointing out that they are not comparable except very superficially.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#364

Post by eitland »

zabzonk wrote: post #316
eitland wrote: post #305

Short answer: It is worth it if you want me on the team. I refuse to work with anyone who throws out TS for JS in 2023. Slightly longer answer: I have said a number of times "Javascript is a simple version of Java in the same way as a bike with one wheel is a simpler version of an ordinary bike." The same can be said about JS and TS. If you want to do any serious work you go for the serious thing even if it means occ…

whoever said that javascript was a simple version of java? the two languages have almost nothing in common - at least a unicycle and a bicycle share the concepts of "wheel" and "pedals".

The syntax is very similar on the surface, at least compared to Perl, PHP, Python, C and - I would personally say - C++ and a number of other languages.

Yes, there is no way you'd mistake one for another if you have worked in any of them - but they look superficially similar.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#365

Post by jmull »

I don't think (i) doesn't make sense to me... I guess a package could foist a TS dependency on you but it certainly doesn't have to. It's pretty sloppy if it does, so maybe not the greatest package anyway. (ii) has nothing specifically to do with TS. (iii) agree. (iv) sure, though static type checking requires a static type-checking step and tool.

You started by skipping over the benefit of static type checking, but that's the direct trade-off: is that benefit worth the extra complexity and time spent satisfying the compiler. For me it's probably usually yes for smaller projects where I know the devs can handle it and definitely yes for larger projects where the communication burden is high (it just partially helps people stay on the rails, organized, and on the same page -- not sufficient by any means, but it eases the strain).

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#366

Post by phazeedae »

eitland wrote: post #305

Short answer: It is worth it if you want me on the team. I refuse to work with anyone who throws out TS for JS in 2023. Slightly longer answer: I have said a number of times "Javascript is a simple version of Java in the same way as a bike with one wheel is a simpler version of an ordinary bike." The same can be said about JS and TS. If you want to do any serious work you go for the serious thing even if it means occ…

With a attitude like that, I wonder if it is worth having you on the team. Might just push me to pick JS then.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#368

Post by nforgerit »

eitland wrote: post #361
nforgerit wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha, If I was on that team I'd seriously consider opting for vanilla JS just for not having to work with you. People who make such absolute claims are in my experience causing more trouble than they're worth. They will always nit-pick on anything anyone is saying causing a toxic atmosphere. Frequently a little later I then figured out that such people think like that because they haven't seen enough of the world and t…

Totally fine with me. If you don't need my advice you can save a lot of money by not hiring me. Edit: The reason why people hire me as a consultant is hopefully because I give clear and valuable advice, and on JS/TS, if TS doesn't work better you are very probably doing something wrong. But don't complain to me when JS bites you behind again and again.

q.e.d.

Re: Ask HN: Is TypeScript worth it?

#369

Post by tomxor »

domk wrote: post #335
tomxor wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially when you're 20 function calls down a stack trying to understand what's happening. Yeah I hate code like that too, but it's not clear to me how type checking would help.

I think type checking helps with that both directly and indirectly. It helps directly by making it much easier to know what type or shape everything is. Without types, all you have are variable names and tracing the code back up the stack yourself. Sometimes good naming conventions are enough. More often than not, a variable called `product` can be one of 3 different types and you have no idea why unless you go up th…

> I find it also helps indirectly by making clever code harder to write. The dynamic nature of JavaScript encourages a degree of cleverness and meta-programming that makes things harder to understand. While you can do the same in TypeScript, making the complier happy makes it much harder to do so, which encourages more straightforward code.

Interesting.

Not having to define types makes JS feel very fluid to me when using it to jump into a problem and quickly test out ideas.

You can figure out solutions fast, and I suppose with that power comes irresponsibility for those who don't care to clear up the chaos they are able to leave behind in the fast iterations towards discovering the implementation they seek. In short - it takes discipline, and your argument it seems is that typescript enforces a certain degree of discipline... pros and cons to both.

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