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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#361

I think this "metaverse" concept is going to turn into yet another VRChat clone and flop. Sansar is a great example, made by Linden Lab. The problem I see is that it fails to have a demand for it to exist. There will not be an emergent userbase that will flock to it. There's already alternatives. VRChat, NeosVR, Sansar, and others I'm not even aware of. Anyone with VR already knows of VRChat, or isn't the type to car…

I think this mostly a hedge-fund/VC driven insanity, similar to insane amount of money placed on ML.

Somebody sold the idea of Metaverse to someone really rich and now they are going to pour all the money to this stuff.

There is no consumer demand for Metaverse and there won’t be any demand for quite a while until they craft comfortable AR/VR eyeglasses that don’t weight a ton.

That being said I’m sure all those billions spend will produce valuable stuff like GPT-3 of today but is it really cost effective way of advancing the tech?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#362
I agree, it is not so different from second life, and this is what makes it scary.

You may think second life was a failure because it never caught on mainstream, but in many ways second life was a huge success. Many many people spent an insane amount of time in second life. Major companies, political parties, art museums, and other “real life” institutions setup shop in second life. You could get a job there building stuff, selling land or being a journalist publishing in second life. I read somewhere that a second life real estate agent became a usd millionaire from buying selling virtual land.

Some people just got totally sucked in. I met a woman who told me she would spend so many hours on it that she didn’t take proper care of her kids. She seemed like someone who was having a hard time in real life, and she found a great escape on SL. It was so easy to make friends, and the exploration of the world was endless.

Immersion was definitely a key to its success. It was good enough to make the player feel stuff. Sit around a fire on a beach at sunset would be soothing. Walking around a Western town would kind of stress you out. It worked.

It’s not for everyone for sure. But what’s scary is that the metaverse is going to pray on the weak, on people with insecurities, on the lonely and the elderly. People who can’t walk in real life are going to fly over cities with birds and meet similarly lonely people. What’s going to happen when they unplug?

Healthy individuals already experience some withdrawal from VR, saying things like “real life is dull compared to what I can do in VR”.

Now, of all companies, the one doing it has a history of optimizing for “time spent in the app”. Disregarding all kind of predatory behavior in the name of profit.

My prediction is that the metaverse is going to turn into “brainwashing as a service”.

The only hope is that VR headsets are too expensive to become widespread.

This is going to be difficult to fight. When you have a “join meeting in metaverse” button in whats app, who’s going to not click it?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#363
post #146

It’s simple really, and most commenters don’t “get” what is going on with all this. Remote communication tools like video conferencing fail to deliver what academics call “social presence”, which is the feeling of being together in unmediated communication. VR and AR have the necessary capabilities to do so, and deliver social presence on par with face to face. With a fully immersive experience, you can feel like you…

Until we can see each other's faces in VR, this won't work for social presence. Shrinking everything down to contact lenses (even sunglasses get in the way of social contact) is likely to be beyond us for quite some while if ever. I'd rather not put something in my eye anyway. Further, VR does not work well for switching - you can't be in VR and scribble notes at the same time. AR might be an improvement, but not by…

> Further, VR does not work well for switching - you can't be in VR and scribble notes at the same time.

In VRChat, you could write something in the air by hands, or even play the piano. The problem might be the user experience is not as good as real world hand writing/typing, and there is no physical feedback when writing/typing. That might make people feel weird.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#364
post #89
post #33

Conceptually speaking, the difference with AR/VR is that you can have a truly immersive experience, which really does give you more possibilities than just Second Life, which was always just a 3D game world on a 2D screen. The pitch from Meta and with AR/VR is that with the ability to use 3D space, you can actually turn Second Life-style virtual worlds into something useful with actual tangible benefits. For example,…

To me, the problem is finding situations where immersiveness actually adds value. I think for a lot of social interactions, it doesn't, or it offers rapidly diminishing value. This conversation would not be meaningfully better as a virtual/augmented reality 3D live chat. The Google Hangouts (or whatever it's called this week) meetings with my team at work would not be better either. I'm not even sure it would beat pl…

Lately I've been thinking of VR/AR as simply a 3D UI for computers. We are already built to handle a 3D world, it is natural and intuitive to us. So VR/AR could be the next popular UI for computers, something anyone can use. Not saying it will happen, it has already not happened several times, but it could and the naturalness of it could be why. It would take a lot of work to make it as easy to navigate and use as the real world is, without also bringing along all the problems with navigating the real world.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is spending his money Say I have >50% control: Can I make it a dynastic company and ensuring my kids gain control of the company? Yes. Who can stop me? No one. Can I dilute everyone else's shares and issues dividends when I want? Yes. Can I issue dividends only to a certain class of shares ensuring those shares which I own a super majority get paid? Yes. Can I fire the board when I want? Yes. I mean sure. Its no…

Do read up on minority shareholder rights. Controlling Voting shares is not as the same hash rate in crypto, owning 51% doesn't give you effective control to do anything you want. There are restrictions on what you can and cannot do .

Minority shareholder rights arose because of past abuses, but the advantage is still very much to the majority shareholder. Your odds of winning a case against a majority shareholder is slim to none and would takes years to resolve in court. So my argument stands firmly. You have a overly simplistic and idealistic view of how equity works.

This argument is getting boring so I am going to stop here. If you still think you are right, then I wish you all the best in the real world.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#366
Architectural. A sea change from thinking about client-server web and game like applications where you are explicitly synchronizing state - to AR and VR objects/functions "running persistently" in the metaverse/cloud, and "updated" from control logic - ie application is responsible for the "semantics" of what happens, while the metaverse handles presence, shared interactions, and rendering.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to setup your own private WoW server where you can give yourself all the best items. Why do people then spend hundreds of hours grinding for them on official servers? Ponder that question and you'll have your answer.

Sure, but WoW doesn't use NFTs to enforce scarcity. What does a Google/Facebook/Microsoft metaverse want NFTs for? Once you start enforcing permissions on which issuers the metaverse honors, the metaverse might as well skip the whole NFT thing and use a database.

Well yea, if one company runs the Metaverse they don't need NFT's. NFT's are for places like Decentraland and other Metaverses running on Ethereum where there is no centralized manager of the world.

It's unlikely there will be one decentralized world (maybe a lobby of some sort, akin to a website directory on the early internet), but instead an Engine + SDK that allows anyone to build their own worlds and choose what NFT's are useable inside it. These worlds can be registered to Ethereum and then users can easily explore and congregate in whatever worlds they wish.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#368
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Like sibling comment said. You are already in your own wild bubble. You’re taking your anecdotes and having them explain why people are or are not doing things in general. When in reality things like Facebook, Oculus, iMessage/FaceTime are all popular.

Maybe for your bubble. You may realize not everyone is living in america ;)

What is my bubble? I did not mention what is popular in my anecdotal experience. You may have misread or assumed things that were not said. I did not bring America up either :).

Tldr: I did not bring up any of my own world experiences

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#369
post #330
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. Look up some statistics. Quest has a 75% market share, Facebook has more than 2 billion users, and there are more than 1 billion iPhone users.

Does that mean that every strong economy should follow these trends? iPhone were as popular as 60% of all sold phones here some years ago, and yet facetime & iMessage did never really get any relevance because of the other 40%. No circle of friends is generally iPhone only, never was. Switzerland may is different, but also representative of a wealthy kinda smart economy.

What does kinda smart economy mean?

I don’t know where your first question comes from. Myself and this other parent are merely saying the stats say differently. Nothing about your first question.

I FaceTime with someone in Switzerland. It doesn’t mean much. I know Apple’s ecosystem isn’t big in Europe. However, when I interact with people across the ocean, they have a pretty easy time using Apples FaceTime if they are on iOS. Sometimes even if just iPad.

In this situation I’m the one pushing friendships more. Otherwise it would be douchey to have someone pull out an iPad just to FaceTime with you.

Sorry if any of my messages seem confrontational. Sometimes I’m upset with my own life and don’t speak as nicely as I should.

A lot of my thoughts come from the small organic free virtual coworking community i cofounded (in my bio :o). Before that, my experience with talking to Europeans on a near daily basis had never been there.

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