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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#361

Post by estefan »

marknutter wrote: post #271
49531 wrote: post #199

I worked in landscaping and then as a custodian making $7/hr before I started learning to code. Working as a programmer has transformed my life. I've got a lot of autonomy in my days, I enjoy solving technical problems, I get to work from home and see my 2yr old grow up. Yeah it sucks when your manager puts heavy deadlines on your team, or having to do things you don't necessarily agree with, or navigating corporate…

> I think it's easy for programmers to hate life sometimes. This is almost entirely due to a severe lack of perspective.

Definitely agree. Try taking a job that pays minimum wage (if you have one), or work in a shop, as a builder, or find friends who have to work all hours to survive and you'll realise how damned lucky you are.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#362

Post by J-dawg »

kcole16 wrote: post #212
J-dawg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought about the possibility of designing a company specifically to maximise the wealth of its employees. Choose a location with a low cost of living, give equity to all employees, maybe provide accommodation / food as part of the benefits package. I'm not sure if I'm describing a cooperative, I just know that most normal companies do the exact opposite of this: they force you to live in a high cost area…

That's basically the point of most law and financial firms (at least when they start out). Until it went public (and still to a large degree), the whole point of Goldman Sachs was to make its' employees rich.

I guess you could say it's also the point of most tech startups, but only for the founders and the first few employees.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#363

Post by codeisawesome »

abalashov wrote: post #226
rudenoise wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to know a good place to start with this kind of thing. Do you have some examples of software engineers contributing their skills to charities, open source projects aimed at assisting in these situations or just some boards or communities that can assist in finding a starting point?

It's a luxury for someone who isn't deeply in the hole and doesn't have a family to support.

Okay; I can empathise with that (not an empty statement).

In that case, I can suggest that your happiness (and 'effortless' productivity) can stem from wanting to dig yourself out of that hole and "set your family up for life" - because looks like you've committed to that direction.

This is easily construable as a presumptuous statement, these things are so much easier said than done. I have no right to play "guru" out here. I just care that a fellow peer in this same struggle is unhappy and talking to you as I would talk to myself and self-counsel.

Whatever you do, good luck, because you don't seem like one of the "bad people". Cheers.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#364

Post by DannoHung »

hellameta wrote: post #331
dev360 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joke with programmer friends that we should become gardeners instead. I guess the appeal of physical labor is you get to leave work at work.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

If you could make 6 figures, I think a decent chunk of people would prefer it to doing office work and making 6 figures. Anyway, the point is that some amount of physical labor as part of your daily life helps make you feel less like a slug. And for some people having that labor not strictly be exercise is compelling.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#365

Post by dev360 »

hellameta wrote: post #331
dev360 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joke with programmer friends that we should become gardeners instead. I guess the appeal of physical labor is you get to leave work at work.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

The gardener example is extreme, but not all physical labor is minimum wage. I have friends that have traded their cushy 6 figure knowledge worker jobs for more down to earth jobs where they work with their hands. From what I can tell, they have traded short term monetary gain for long term happiness, and it definitively has its appeal.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#366

Post by amatxn »

ryandrake wrote: post #329
amatxn wrote: post #305

I've been programming for 15 years, since I was 21. It used to be my passion, work, and hobby. Over the last 3 years I've gradually shifted from development to managing projects and product development, and recently moved to the team leader/manager. Right now I really like the product and management side of the work, but the technical / programmer side I am very burned out on. I used to spend my free time consulting,…

Fellow project/product manager! I also programmed for 10+ years and got burnt out. But, I still program in my abundance (hah!) of spare time, and would gladly go back to programming for a living if the nature of the work fundamentally changed.

I've been trying to learn Elixir in my spare time, feels a lot like the breath of fresh air Ruby/Rails was when it came out.

Also, been toying with data science/machine learning w/ Python.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#367

Post by ThomaszKrueger »

10/10. Electric Engineer turned programmer, never looked back. I get to work on a field for which there is absolutely no regulation, and mobility is very high. I don't get paid as much as a lawyer or a doctor, but neither have their stress level. I pretty much get to the office any time I want and leave any time I want, or not at all if I decided to work from home. I get plenty of time between project cycles, and over 30+ years learned how to establish proper expectation on clients and managers, so it is very rare for me to get in a crunch.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#368

Post by dev360 »

tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #356
softawre wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. But... I'd be a gardener. If it paid me the same I make now. At least for 3 months a year? I worked at Lowes in college hauling lumber and I miss it dearly (rose colored goggles and all). I was in the best shape of my life, I didn't think about work (lumber?) at home. It was a simpler life.

Last summer I discovered I particularly like gardening. I think I'd be a gardener too if it paid the same.

I guess its something that grows on you as you get older.

Ive toyed with the idea of buying a little house in south europe, cut my expenses, work IT part-time/remot and have some land to grow stuff on.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#369

Post by mangeletti »

hellameta wrote: post #331
dev360 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joke with programmer friends that we should become gardeners instead. I guess the appeal of physical labor is you get to leave work at work.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

I would absolutely do labor, if it paid the same, as long as it wasn't the most basic (e.g., digging ditches) labor.

I worked at a car wash (vacuuming, drying cars, etc.) for 9 months when I was 15, and I loved every minute of it, despite the fact that it was very laborious. I had many jobs in the year before that, most of which were inside without much labor, and I hated each of them.

Then, I framed houses (first 3 months were basically just carrying things around and making cuts for others) for a year when I was 16, and it was a blast, as long as it was warm outside. However, what was not a blast was making $7.25/hr. I felt great though, super healthy from all the lifting, walking, climbing, etc. The only non-monetary negative was cold weather; swinging a hammer in the cold is no bueno for anyone.

I also did landscaping at 17... for one day. I'm not going to lie. Landscaping is mega hard work, and the 3 Mexican men I worked with put me to shame in less than 6 hours, despite my frequent visits to the gym and +10 years of youth I had on them.

Now, I write code. I love it, but I absolutely hate being in a chair, and standing while I type is not appealing to me. I work out for 45 min every day at the gym after, but it doesn't make up for all the cave-dwelling I do.

In summary, I think that labor is usually really rewarding, even when you feel pooped at the end of the day, but certain labor jobs push the envelope a bit too far to be called "rewarding".

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#370

Post by aerovistae »

estefan wrote: post #361
marknutter wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's easy for programmers to hate life sometimes. This is almost entirely due to a severe lack of perspective.

Definitely agree. Try taking a job that pays minimum wage (if you have one), or work in a shop, as a builder, or find friends who have to work all hours to survive and you'll realise how damned lucky you are.

No. Just because "it can be worse" doesn't mean someone doesn't have the right to be unhappy. It's a totally specious argument. "Your kid died? Well, what if BOTH your kids died? You have a lack of perspective..."

Yes, they would no doubt prefer their high-paying job over a minimum wage job. But that doesn't mean that they no longer have any right to be unhappy with their lives. This is exactly the point of the hedonic treadmill[1]. There are happy people with rough jobs and unhappy people with great jobs.

[1]The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the observed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes.

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