Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

There's a bit of "silly flexing" and projecting here but not entirely without merit. At regular intervals I'll actually turn all my IDE features off just to give myself a refresher. I would imagine that if you took away most IDE syntactical sugar, the vast majority of relatively competent devs could adapt in short order to it.

To me it's the equivalent of using an IME to type Chinese, but occasionally I'll just sit down and physically write the characters on pen/paper. Do I need to do it? Not really, but I enjoy how it forces me into a state of uncomfortableness.

> Then the trend to pollute untyped-languages' codebases with so-called-"typing" noise, because "it would be IDeditor-friendly". Form over function

I honestly have zero idea what you're trying to say here. You mean Typescript or using JSDocs to inform type expectations? What exactly is the issue?

These kinds of arguments get "trot out" all the bloody time. Whatever I grew up with was the most ideal - whatever came after is just a crutch.

For that matter, why are you using a high-level language like Javascript or C#? Don't you know that it's a crutch and gets in the way of true programming understanding? You should be using magnetized needles to etch machine code directly onto disk platters.

1) LSPs. They are probably most productive tool in a programmers belt. Even now, if I had to work on a giant amorphous code base that changes on the whim of hundreds of individual maintainers, I would use an LSP. That said, in my opinion, they prevent you from forming and conveying your actual thoughts.

Using an LSP is like having your sentence be completed by someone else. It's like riding a scooter everywhere. It's like talking to people that you always agree with. Fine, in isolation, but forms habits of dubious benefit at best, or downright harmful at worst. Our brains are just like any other part of our bodies; if you don't use it, you'll lose it.

Completing a function name? Sure, it makes you faster. That is what you wanted in the first place. Pressing 3 keys at most then hitting tab, how could that be harmful over typing the full name with over 16 characters? Unfortunately, brains excel at optimizing, and when done enough, your brain too, will happily optimize the name of the function away.

Smartly completing a function's parameters? Sure, invaluable honestly, without sarcasm. Being aware of types? Even better. Over time though, the brain will strip away the unneeded.

Naturally, this convenience doesn't make you unable to code. The necessary information is still in your brain, just at a higher level. You may not know exactly what gets returned from somewhere, but you can change a few 's add a few 's, perhaps shuffle the name a little bit and still get the correct type, because LSP will color it correctly when it is correct. Did you name the thing nioseLevel or levelNoise() or getNoies().Single(perlin-2d)? The idea is the same, does how you get there matter?

In my highly personal opinion, typing every syllable every letter, thinking about the correct types before writing, knowing where a structure is, knowing how functions interact and so on, is the primary way that our brains interact with the code itself. Quite literally it is the exercise that your brain needs to stay fit. This interaction creates a mental map initially, and eventually leads to mastery by being able to hold everything in your head.

Reading code is different. It is a passive action. We get ideas through observation, but learn by doing. Typing, thinking, then writing is the doing verb in programming. Reading is the observation, the reflection after the fact.

An LSP strips away the necessary weights, if you will. If you ride a scooter everywhere all the time, no one will gasp when your muscles atrophy. LSP is similar, but compounding. With the rise of LSPs, so came the rise of complexity, often in form of bad architecture. My personal (and I will immediately concede that it may truly be a personal physiological problem) is the rise of complexity in often what should be pedestrian code. Reminds me of the worst times I've had with java; because everyone has LSP's (right?), who cares if you need to follow 5 files just to correctly create a mental model of that type? But hey, at least it's not oop (because it doesn't have the keyword 'class' in it).

The more I type the more I realize how hard it is to concisely explain what I mean. If I were to use an analogy, using an LSP would be like talking to your best friend where you complete each other's sentences. Yes, both of you know what the other thinks. When you see the news on X, Bluesky, or even TV, all you need is to look at each other and shake your heads. There's no need for words, one glance is enough. If your only political discourse is two best friends agreeing with each other, if you've never exposed yourself to opposing views, you have essentially never articulated your thoughts. Your ideas remained as a bowl of feelings, not logic. So, when someone with an opposite view and a glib tongue tries to debate, they will verbally run circles around you. And you will get angry. But the only way to get better at debating, is to debate. Watching debates won't give you the expertise. Your friend can't hold cue cards as you talk to strangers (or at least they shouldn't). You do not get better at eloquent speaking without speaking. You do not get better at eloquent writing without writing.

To me, LSP was like that. I vaguely had a feeling, and I let everything else go --- even the syntax --- to achieve it. Once collectively done, the result was a 30m+ loc mess of a side project; yes, not even the main one. After years of that, I came to realize I wasn't programming as I defined what programming was to myself.

In a more broader sense, LSP enables complexity. Programming is an endeavor where complexity occurs naturally, and simplicity has to be fought over. This creates a vicious cycle where you need an LSP to combat the complexity, which itself leads to complexity, and in turn leads to more LSP usage. Our field makes this is even more noticeable since programming itself is in a state of permanent newcomers influx; the demand for programmers goes higher every year, yet we are persistently and woefully unprepared for properly educating these programmers, because we can't even agree on what "correct" software development looks like. In this sense, the "harm" is more institutional, rather than intrinsic.

I would not advocate or even advise others to stop using LSPs, mind you. But I do think it is overall harmful at a personal level, and at an institutional level. Not that it would stop any billion dollar companies of course.

2) Syntax highlighting. Throughout the years, I have seen exactly one example where syntax highlighting could (could) have actually prevent a (singular) error, and that was with C #endif's. Leaving aside the extremely self-evident nature of the C macros, the code itself had mixed quite a few #endif's and the author could not be bothered with adding a comment, because (I'm paraphrasing) "his LSP darkened the #ifdef's correctly." Mine did too, but that's beside the point.

Disabling syntax highlighting was unexpectedly difficult, far more so than leaving LSP at the door. At first I couldn't read anything. The code simply didn't look appealing enough. Everything about it was off. I just shrugged and continued my little experiment. Eventually, I realized lack of coloring and hinting made me focus more on the code itself. The pretty patterns while great to look at, I think they do lead me to discard sections of code at a personal level. I would never say turning syntax coloring is better, just that it doesn't have any benefit that I could substantially measure. Though to be clear, turning them off really did gave me some satisfaction, most certainly borne from the mindset of making a change, rather than change itself being positive.

Whenever I look at something on github, my pattern matching brain immediately shoves a dopamine hit down my throat, so yes, I still think syntax highlighting is prettier. Though at the same time, I still get the feeling that I pay more attention to the cold and colorless columns of my editor.

3) Over time I have developed a certain distaste towards certain applications. And over time, that distaste have evolved into a preoccupying hatred. So I will refrain from saying too much about "complex and highly integrated tools." I've come to think some of the reason why these tools exist in the first place is the commoditization of programmers. Nowadays I prefer far simpler tools, at least conceptually speaking. I did pick up emacs after I quit my previous job, so there's a hefty bit of subjectivity in my assessment. That said, I would choose notepad (literally notepad) over visual studio at this point. Bash over bazel; a gun over typescript. And so on.

Wrapping up:

Am I a better programmer than I was a little over a year ago? Without a doubt yes, I have improved substantially. Though the improvement isn't what you would think. I'm not "seeing the matrix" so to speak, as a young me would've embarrassingly put it. At first I ended up regressing and kept refactoring my tiny codebase; it was a slog. Over time I found what worked for me, and become able to hold almost the entire codebase in my head. No, I did not gain inhuman memory simply because I stopped using an LSP, I just became more aware of the code structure, and gained the ability to reason about the entire codebase more clearly and precisely. If I were to present two code samples, one from two years ago and one from today, perhaps even I wouldn't be able to say which is better at a micro level. The real difference is that after numerous refactors, the 200k+ loc codebase I have now feels like a 2k project from my college days; easy to modify, easy to keep it all in my head. Thinking back at my career, most of the codebases I worked on could've achieved that too, but chose not to. The overarching reason is --- in my opinion --- the commoditization of programmers, which causes institutional loss of knowledge. LSP isn't the cause of that obviously, though it does worsen it.

You're spot on with jetbrains etc.. I have also tried it and a few other highly specific and focused best-possible-experience full IDEs along the way. Early in learning a stack I felt needlessly burdened by the nuances between autocomplete options (which put me at risk of ending up stuck in an documentation hole happily reading about shit I didn't need to for hours) and once more confident I just went back to regular annoyance. In some code bases I'd probably have used it more, as the suggestions were so much more refined and useful. You're totally right in that it's a whole different league from VSCode.

Then there's dynamic and weakly typed, ie. JavaScript. Dynamic and strongly typed, Ruby. Static and weakly typed, C. Static and strongly typed, Rust.