Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#351

Post by Simon_ORourke » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 1:37 PM UTC

tommychillfiger wrote: post #350

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do NOT recommend being upfront, unless there are no formal procedures in place and being honest actually helps. We are talking about your ability to feed and shelter yourself, so give up on the “honesty” thing. I have -never- been able to provide for myself after having been “honest”. [edit: after reading felonintexas let me update this. If someone point blank asks, tell them. Don’t volunteer this information. Th…

I'm generally someone who sees honesty as a virtue and have always been fairly open, at work and in my private life. I'm curious if you can expand on this a bit - i.e., why is it a disadvantage and what sort of pitfalls can it lead to? I've been in analytics for a few years now, and it seems like it has mostly been an advantage for me, but it's certainly possible I just don't know what I don't know.

Example - about 2005 I was a junior dev thinking I was about to make the cut to senior within the year, in a medium sized IT company. Let it slip accidentally to my boss that I used to install servers in racks in a previous role. Ended up being shoved into a "lateral move" into the systems engineering team because they couldn't hire quickly enough. Fast forward another six months and I get laid off after a migration to the cloud makes my team redundant. Expensive lesson, but lesson learned.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#352

Post by tommychillfiger » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 1:50 PM UTC

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #351

tommychillfiger wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally someone who sees honesty as a virtue and have always been fairly open, at work and in my private life. I'm curious if you can expand on this a bit - i.e., why is it a disadvantage and what sort of pitfalls can it lead to? I've been in analytics for a few years now, and it seems like it has mostly been an advantage for me, but it's certainly possible I just don't know what I don't know.

Example - about 2005 I was a junior dev thinking I was about to make the cut to senior within the year, in a medium sized IT company. Let it slip accidentally to my boss that I used to install servers in racks in a previous role. Ended up being shoved into a "lateral move" into the systems engineering team because they couldn't hire quickly enough. Fast forward another six months and I get laid off after a migration…

Okay, this is a useful example as it's salient for me. Especially as a relatively recent pivoter into tech, I've been willing to jump on whatever is needed and generally am able to figure things out and make it work. In my current position, at a small SaaS with layoffs and churn, this has led to me basically owning 3-4 roles' worth of tasks. Mostly completely unrelated to one another and very stressful due to the constant context switching. I appreciate your perspective here, this is something concrete I can work on.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#353

Post by phpisthebest » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

CodeSgt wrote: post #347

phpisthebest wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a weed dealer a gray area but cocaine not a gray area both are things people are consuming voluntarily into their own body why is one prohibited from consuming cocaine of their own volition but not marijuana I'm of the position it all drugs even medical drugs should be free to consume by anybody I should be able to walk in to CVS and get heart medication if I want or cocaine if I want if CVS is willing to sell…

Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. The citizens of communities ravaged by addiction all suffer, whether they individually consume the drug or not. The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. No, I don’t think…

>>>Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it.

Sorry no... This is 3rd party Liability and that can not be the basis for a free society, as at that point everything becomes regulated

Want to go back to Alcohol Prohibition as well?

Further The Father is also free to choose a job where he makes less money that would impact the "little girl" in negative ways, or may choose to tell off his boss and get fired, will you now regulate speech "for the children"

>>The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it.

Victimless crime is defined for First Party victimization, to most people 3rd party liability is not a thing, Ford is not responsible if someone kills someones else in a F150, A Gun Manufacturer is not responsible when someone kills someone with a gun... The victims of those crimes are victim of the PERSON that victimized them, the driver or murder

Drug abuse can lead to other crimes, such as theft, and the victims of those crimes are victims of the drug user.

However you can not have a free society if you start shifting the liability upstream, at that point you get in a Pre Crime laws (which is what Drug laws are) and you end up with a whole negative effect and tyranny

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#354

Post by alumnumn » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #17

publicprivacy wrote: post #12

Thank you all for your perspective, and suggestions. I was on a bad psychedelic trip, accompanied with some other issues at the time and ending up making threatening statements to a very high level official, but no battery occurred whatsoever. Thank goodness, or I would probably not be writing this message

You said in your post it was not drug-related, but here you say it was a bad psychedelic trip. Which is true?

“Gotcha! No hire!”

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#355

Post by calvinmorrison » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #338

calvinmorrison wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not controversial, because we've twisted freedom of association, in places people aren't allowed to even have a "Ladies Night" at the bar, chose who the rent to, etc etc etc. Barry Goldwater absolutely and unequivocally warned us of this. Now because that freedom of association, freedom to chose who you do business with does not exist, we think this is reasonable. However, it is not. I own a business. I should n…

I get that, but in this specific case it kinda sucks for you. We shouldn’t be making a system that penalizes offenders for life without explicit sentencing for such. Whether that information is useful to your business is relatively irrelevant to me because denying people proper employment does a lot more harm to them than the harm done to the people in businesses like yours by not penalizing them.

But you don't get it. you think the government is required to play God in every aspect of the economy, clearly.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#356

Post by theGnuMe » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

mattclarkdotnet wrote: post #324

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

26 years ago, I was charged with a felony in CA. I pled nolo contendre to a misdemeanor and received court probation; no other penalties. I recently underwent an extensive background check with my longtime employer and the case still showed up. Of course I had allocuted to it in advance and it was not a problem.

I was hiring for a role in Australia, and had to sign off an exception because the preferred candidate had an unpaid speeding ticket in California. On the other hand we definitely hired people without speeding tickets who were likely deep agents for foreign states.

makes ya think doesn't it..

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#357

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

throwawaymypot wrote: post #323

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay not knowing the details. I'm not reacting to you or the parent here. I'm just weary of society being compulsively hostile toward redemption. Let the past be there.

The point about being hostile by default is precisely what pushed me towards suicide attempts. Without any context it's very easy to jump to conclusions. Few people consider it might be a zebra not a horse when they hear the sound of hooves. Some people cannot live with actions they have done; others feel they cannot live with the limited options available in the future. I was the latter.

>The point about being hostile by default is precisely what pushed me towards suicide attempts.

This thread is stale enough I'm going to risk injecting some religion into it.

I've spent most of my life belonging to (some variant of) a faith with redemption at it's core. And yet, our adherents tend to dominate the part of society that 1) dedicates massive resources to thwart redemption and 2) broadly support the eradication of redemption. My analysis has slowly been shifting from our actions are indistinguishable from evil to - according to our own plain and reasonable definition, we're evil.

> Some people cannot live with actions they have done; others feel they cannot live with the limited options available in the future. I was the latter.

I have glimpsed the former and can say it is no metaphor. As to the latter, I'll say I was born at the end of a more reasonable time.

The actions of my youth didn't risk individuals or society in any meaningful way - yet would have imprisoned me for life today. This is entirely because we have become an unreasonable people who have lost our way. We no longer assess risk well because we have given up our sense of proportion.

I don't know how to make any of this better. Just learning how to fathom and elucidate the issue is taking time. Perhaps I'll come across people who can do something with that.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#358

Post by trogdor » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:28 PM UTC

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #351

tommychillfiger wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally someone who sees honesty as a virtue and have always been fairly open, at work and in my private life. I'm curious if you can expand on this a bit - i.e., why is it a disadvantage and what sort of pitfalls can it lead to? I've been in analytics for a few years now, and it seems like it has mostly been an advantage for me, but it's certainly possible I just don't know what I don't know.

Example - about 2005 I was a junior dev thinking I was about to make the cut to senior within the year, in a medium sized IT company. Let it slip accidentally to my boss that I used to install servers in racks in a previous role. Ended up being shoved into a "lateral move" into the systems engineering team because they couldn't hire quickly enough. Fast forward another six months and I get laid off after a migration…

I’m not sure that your experience should be generalized to a broad rule against volunteering “any information about yourself to anyone in the office beyond what is required to complete your job.”

I used to work in finance. Volunteering personal information about myself led to a close friendship with the CFO of the bank I worked for. I did good work, but so did many other people. The CFO and I got along so well only because we connected as people — mostly based on our personal lives and shared interests. My relationship with that person rocketed my career forward.

I don’t mean to take away from your experience. It sucks. But volunteering personal information can be beneficial.

Your risk tolerance should factor into the decision. The story above happened very early on in my career, shortly out of college. Taking those risks, to me, at the time, was totally worth it.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#359

Post by randomdata » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #328

randomdata wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd warrant nearly all of them, though it may take a while. Why guess when the other commenter has the actual data...?

What commenter had data?

The one we were originally talking to before others started randomly interjecting with gobbledygook.

His eventual response was 0, by the way.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#360

Post by voxic11 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 3:00 PM UTC

justsomeoldguy wrote: post #166

tonetegeatinst wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a felon but grew up with everyone telling us that colleges would search our social media etc. A friend told me that the 2 important rules to surviving corporate environments is the following in no specific order. 1. Never lie to someone, and own what you did. Wordsmithing is a gray area but never lie, the reputation of not being truthful can follow you for decades. 2. Never volunteer information that isn't specif…

sounds reasonable, but I can't tell you how combative it is if you're applying for a job in a state that forbids them from asking if you have any felonies, and there it is on the job application, staring you in the face. so what are you going to do, tell them no? you won't get the job. tell the truth? you won't get the job. sue them? good luck. you'll need it and that does not get you the job and the settlement, if y…

You don't need to sue, you should file a complaint with your states department of labor or whomever is charged with enforcing your states labor laws, they will sue for you if they think you have a case. Also in every state I have seen with a similar law the law specifically says you are allowed to lie if you are asked that question anyways and the employer is not allowed to run a background check on you before they offer you the job so your lie cannot be discovered before the job offer is made (and after its made your lie cannot be used against you and the offer cannot be rescinded without a written evaluation that explains why the specifics in your background check make you incompatible with the specific job you were offered). So I would just lie about it and if you don't get the job or the offer gets unfairly rescinded then report it to your department of labor.

Guidance for New York City which is a locality with such a law:

> Job applications cannot have questions about criminal records and cannot ask you to authorize a background check. Employers cannot ask you questions about your criminal record. If you are asked about your record, your answer cannot be used against you. Employers cannot run a background check on you until after a conditional offer of employment.

> Once an employer offers you a job, they can ask about and consider your criminal record ...an employer can decide to not hire you for one of two reasons: 1. because a direct relationship exists between your conviction and the job you want; or 2. because your conviction history creates an unreasonable risk to people or property. The employer must send you its reasoning in writing, along with the background check it used.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/media/fair-chance-employees.pa...