Early react team member here. The popular react/webpack/npm stack is probably what the OP is talking about. It was popularized because the Instagram web team used webpack and npm in 2013 so we recommended it alongside react in the early days. I was TLM of the team when we made these decisions. There are three main points I want to add to the conversation. 1. UIs actually have a lot of complexity. The number of states…
Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
351–360 of 398 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#3521- As @tgflynn mentioned: historical complexity The web was made for publishing text, not making rich apps. But it turned out to be exceptionally good for publishing SaaS. So we continued to pigggy back on it. Working directly with the DOM is too verbose, hence nobody wants to touch it. 2- Service oriented architecture When mobiles became a thing around 2008, normal MVC apps with some AJAX would not cut, because mobi…
>Working directly with the DOM I think this is the fundamental problem. The data structures you work with are different from the data structures displayed. Almost every framework out there is there to solve this problem in a different way.
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#353Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#354Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#355Early react team member here. The popular react/webpack/npm stack is probably what the OP is talking about. It was popularized because the Instagram web team used webpack and npm in 2013 so we recommended it alongside react in the early days. I was TLM of the team when we made these decisions. There are three main points I want to add to the conversation. 1. UIs actually have a lot of complexity. The number of states…
About #1 there's Win32 API, MFC, WinForms, GTK, Qt, Swing and all do UI and thousands of applications are built with far more state and complex UIs than a normal SaaS, price comparison portal or a booking website ever could imagine - but none of those technologies are ascomplex, as bloated and as fragile as modern frontend stack has become.
Second - Backend complexity, Kubernetes isn't Backend precisely, async Queues are unavoidable but these Microservices are basically an anti pattern driven by greed to land the next Job and hence insistence on using different programming languages per team/indivual etc. Now a cottage industry in it's own right with it's own self proclaimed scholars whereas it is just and exactly the domain of distributed system already.
If that constraint of per team programming language of choice is removed or languages interoperate with zero configuration, 98% of the companies need just well maintained internal libraries.
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#356Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#357Early react team member here. The popular react/webpack/npm stack is probably what the OP is talking about. It was popularized because the Instagram web team used webpack and npm in 2013 so we recommended it alongside react in the early days. I was TLM of the team when we made these decisions. There are three main points I want to add to the conversation. 1. UIs actually have a lot of complexity. The number of states…
/me remembers MFC/QT/BCGsoft and C++ codebase and gently smiles on thought that maybe the issue are everywhere else except the UI complexity. We are where we are, but it is interesting that GUI libraries from 20 years back are still running circles around latest and the greatest UI web front-end, even if it is also client rendered. Maybe, just maybe, we should search for an issue somewhere else?
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, I'm a Redux maintainer. I'll definitely agree that Redux _has_ been overused. But it's also worth understanding _why_ Redux was created in the first place and why it got so popular. As a brief recap: the first major wave of JS MVC frameworks had major flaws. Angular's dirty checking didn't scale and was impossible to debug. Backbone's event-based system led to events ricocheting around the app with no way to trac…
> This led to Facebook designing React to let devs write encapsulated components with predictable output and behavior, but React didn't have a solution for larger global state. Facebook later announced a "Flux Architecture" concept that tried to make larger app state updates predictable through centralization. Can someone explain this to me please? How is it possible, that Facebook, did not have a plan from the begin…
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
tailwind is the best utility css library to use with React, you can make components with Angular, React became more popular than Angular because it didn't introduce new concepts like dependency injection and stuck closer to ES6 standards
Tailwind got popular because react doesn’t include CSS in components. Angular 1 wasn’t components based and only three people ever used angular 2.
Re: Ask HN: Why did Frontend development explode in complexity?
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cocoa (macOS) for example
And what modern applications written with it are running circles? Legit question.