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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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351–360 of 381 posts

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the most dystopian thing about this - the best, most aspiration use for VR they can show case is… meetings, but in VR.

What's wrong with that? That meetings are necessary in modern working life is a fact. So might as well have products and services that make them better on some axes. And it doesn't necessarily have to be just office meetings either. University lectures or tutorials this way also sound pretty cool to me. You could have a student from Taiwan, the US, Germany and Sweden sit in the same classroom and interact, without ha…

Literally just do zoom

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#352
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get to decide that. Such is the nature of idealism. It is a shame we allow a world of plenty to artificially lock up value so a few people can feel better than others Alternatively, why is a piece of data not allowed to just be? You can see this everywhere, even outside the digital world and in the realm of the mind. An idea is never allowed to stand on its own merits, we always have to attach our bullshi…

You have a fundamental misunderstanding. The point is you simply will not get certain creative works in this model. They will not be worth the opportunity cost. There is no reality where you get “no scarcity” as well as “all the creative works you would have gotten with scarcity.” (Ie, probably most of those which have led to our present day wealth.) Your proposed world is to say we ought to just not have people crea…

I'm willing to lose "some" creative works because of a lack of scarcity. Speaking from experience, artists will always want to create. That is the creative drive. There is no reason that work should not be accessible to all if the technology allows for it.

If it would mean less profiteers, less fakers, less pretenders, less sharks, less debutantes, less tourists... I'm all for it.

There are plenty of ways to profit as an artist without locking up one's work to a privileged few

Will the artistic landscape be different? Sure. But it would be a worthy change.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control doesn't make it his money. His money is only small fraction of the money being spent. You made two statements that he is spending his money and spending money makes it not an achievement if it successful. Neither of it is true , bootstrapping your way to success may make it even more impressive achievement, but success with or without money is difficult achievement that shouldn't be belittled.

> he is spending his money Say I have >50% control: Can I make it a dynastic company and ensuring my kids gain control of the company? Yes. Who can stop me? No one. Can I dilute everyone else's shares and issues dividends when I want? Yes. Can I issue dividends only to a certain class of shares ensuring those shares which I own a super majority get paid? Yes. Can I fire the board when I want? Yes. I mean sure. Its no…

Do read up on minority shareholder rights. Controlling Voting shares is not as the same hash rate in crypto, owning 51% doesn't give you effective control to do anything you want. There are restrictions on what you can and cannot do .

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops me from minting an NFT that says I own anything I want? If platforms are only honoring NFTs minted by other platforms then they might as well just share that information in a database.

It's pretty easy to setup your own private WoW server where you can give yourself all the best items. Why do people then spend hundreds of hours grinding for them on official servers? Ponder that question and you'll have your answer.

Sure, but WoW doesn't use NFTs to enforce scarcity.

What does a Google/Facebook/Microsoft metaverse want NFTs for? Once you start enforcing permissions on which issuers the metaverse honors, the metaverse might as well skip the whole NFT thing and use a database.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree this is one facet, but other is we now have a trustless ownership protocol (ie. cryto + NFTs) that will lay the foundation for people "caring" about the stuff and status you have in the metaverse.

The virtual stuff you "own" in virtual environments are going to be siloed in individual companies' ecosystems. Just like GTA Online is never going to give me any sort of benefit from the fancy sword I have in World of Warcraft, neither is Facebook/Meta going give me any benefit from the couch I have in whatever system Microsoft or Valve puts out. NFTs are never going to materialize into that sort of cross-ecosystem…

And even if they did, they could share that information with a database or a federated API. No reason to bother with NFTs.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virtual stuff you "own" in virtual environments are going to be siloed in individual companies' ecosystems. Just like GTA Online is never going to give me any sort of benefit from the fancy sword I have in World of Warcraft, neither is Facebook/Meta going give me any benefit from the couch I have in whatever system Microsoft or Valve puts out. NFTs are never going to materialize into that sort of cross-ecosystem…

This is already happening. You're thinking about this in reverse. The web 1.0 and 2.0 way of thinking if we build the product, then we own the community. The web 3.0 way of thinking is there are existing communities out there (BAYC, Punks, etc.) that we can enable to use our product and come into our space. And this is already happening.

Okay, but these people are already on Twitter and Twitter doesn't do any work to verify that they "own" the NFT for their BAYC avatar or whatever. But they like Twitter, so they hang out there anyway even though anyone could "rip off" their NFT and tweet it or use it as their avatar.

It seems to me that they need Twitter (and Discord, etc) way more than the other way around. No enabling required.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#358
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value is that the blockchains (or analogous tech) maximize durability and odds of societal consensus across time and space. For example, I would put higher odds on the Ethereum blockchain still existing and being citable in a century or two than most centralized authorities today. (These may be low odds in absolute terms, but in relative terms I think the Ethereum chain wins.)

Okay, Ethereum is still around, but all it says is that in 2023 you bought a string of digits that referred to a special hat in Fortnite. But it's 2040 now and the special hat has linkrotted away because Fortnite got taken over by Zuckerberg.

It’s hard to say if the link rot will be a problem. Not to mention, many of these ownership transactions won’t be links. The point is being able to agree on something, not have access to the underlying. The latter is a somewhat orthogonal concern. No matter what Zuck does, it won’t be possible for people to deny who owned the hat, regardless of if the underlying bits of the hat have gone away. And of course, for the things that people actually care about, these bits will be preserved, or over time the ownership will be understood to relate to new, probably better bits.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#359
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not that meetings are not a good application, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of useful productivity stuff beyond that.[1] Also in person meetings are useful over a video call largely because there is lot of information from body language you can pick up being up close to someone. There is a lot of information on how someone breathes, moves or posture etc. AFAIK there is no good VR solution that is…

> Also in person meetings are useful over a video call largely because there is lot of information from body language you can pick up being up close to someone. There is a lot of information on how someone breathes, moves or posture etc. I keep hearing this but don't feel I've lost anything working fully remote for the last five years. Are there experiments proving that a call with high quality audio is so much worse…

It depends on the kind of work you do. Some roles doesn't require that much collaboration or discussions.

A senior developer/IC in a well run shop maybe requires to attend 1-2 meetings a day and can function efficiently for years without distractions of a work place.

However roles that require a lot of whiteboarding and brain storming simply don't work well remote on zoom. it is hard to share a meaningful simple white board, it is impossible to walk around and ideate .

Teaching a class of 20 in remote is hard. Teaching for me depends on my ability to see their eyes clearly to know see the light of understanding so to speak then changing my examples speed or approach to make sure most get the points. Many business meetings are also not that different. It is impossible for me to look at 10 boxes on a screen to do the same.

I have heard from sales professionals that without being near the customer it hard to judge what their interest levels are, what kind of discounts / packages to offer etc . Video chat simply doesn't give you the same inputs.

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When you share a public space with few others , by design the reduction in privacy also helps everyone learn and collaborate better, some just turn around for help and gets it in a minute, I look over a shoulder and see they are stuck and could use help .

Small ,informal and unstructured discussions is where lot of nuance is learnt. Slack doesn't replace this very well at all.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#360
post #71
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are spending insanely on r and d on this compared to companies their size. 10b a year.

honestly I am not sure how actually are they spending that kind of money. I dont see a ton of fb recruiters hiring for VR skills, I dont see a lot of training/certifications /open source libraries /platform Sdks for other devs etc that feels like $10B a year kind of budgets are behind VR/AR. That's a lot of money, Hard space companies like SpaceX or Blue Origin which have big hardware expenses spend only 1-2 billon/y…

> Does FB have 20,000 + engineers working on metaverse?

At least 10k as of March

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/12/22326875/facebook-reality...

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